View Poll Results: Are restrictions on the purchase/sale of firearms constitutional?

Voters
82. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes

    31 37.80%
  • No

    43 52.44%
  • Other

    8 9.76%
Page 28 of 65 FirstFirst ... 18262728293038 ... LastLast
Results 271 to 280 of 647

Thread: 2nd amendment rights.

  1. #271
    warrior of the wetlands
    TurtleDude's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Ohio
    Last Seen
    Today @ 04:12 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Right
    Posts
    180,703

    Re: 2nd amendment rights.

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Incognito View Post
    Not a single one of those quotations you cite disproved the fact that the second amendment is a conditional sentence. Ergo, the original intent of the second amendment can only be interpreted to mean that when a well-regulated militia ceases to be necessary for the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms may be infringed. That's just what the sentence means.

    Let's analyze your quotes, Goshin, to see exactly if they help your case:



    These simply describe what a militia is composed of, and do not bear on the conditionality of the second amendment. Nobody is disputing the fact that the militia is composed of the people.

    In fact, these quotes do you more harm that good, Goshin. The quotes above cannot reasonably be construed to include the National Guard asa type of "militia," thus they prove that the militia as the Framers understood it doesn't exist any more.




    Considering that he was writing at a time when militias were still commonplace, I don't see how this bears on the conditionality of the second amendment whatsoever.



    I'm sorry, what was Samuel Adams's role in writing the Constitution?

    Even assuming he did have a role in writing the second amendment, there is nothing in this quotation that demonstrates a right to gun ownership in the Constitution, merely that the Constitution does not preclude gun ownership.


    As for the rest of your quotations, they don't really bear on the issue at all. Like I said, I don't think that cherry-picking from the writings of the founding fathers is a good way to determine what the law is, but if you are going to do that you might want to at least cherry pick quotes that actually provide support for your position.
    this is so stupid I don't know where to start. it is not a conditional clause and you cannot find any legitimate authority for that. You claim to be a libertarian yet you play games and we all know you don't think there is an individual right for non "militia members" to own guns

    I am tiring of your trolling on this subject. the contrarian games get old

    there is nothing in the USC that properly allows federal regulation of small arms and the second, ninth and tenth amendments further proscribe any such regulation



  2. #272
    Sage
    Guy Incognito's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Last Seen
    12-02-17 @ 07:43 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    11,216

    Re: 2nd amendment rights.

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    Look -- its YOUR position and so it is up to YOU to back it up.
    I've adopted the same position as Judge Posner. If you cannot refute him then you cannot refute me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    You claim tha the intent of the people involved in the 2nd that to enjoy the protection of the 2nd, ones actions must be in direct relation to service in the militia.
    That isn't my claim at all. You clearly haven't been reading or understanding my posts. Please re-read the thread. I have clearly stated my position is that the keep and bear clause is contingent on the militia clause. This does not mean that one must be in the militia to keep and bear, merely that the keep and bear clause is logically contingent on truth of the militia clause.

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    To do that, you have to quote statements from those people that support that position. If your source has those quotes, then feel free to copy and paste them, but without those quotes, your argument is unsound.
    False. Please see my refutation of Goshin above for why "quotes" from the personal writings of the founding fathers are merely red herrings to this discussion.

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    Fact of the matter is, there are no quotes to that effect, you know it, and you're simply trying to dodge the issue.
    Fact of the matter is you are the only one dodging anything. Because of your failure to address any of my or Judge Posners on arguments on their merits you have forfeited the debate. Nice talking with you, but you lose.

  3. #273
    Filmmaker Lawyer Patriot
    Harshaw's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Last Seen
    Today @ 06:02 PM
    Lean
    Libertarian - Right
    Posts
    29,578

    Re: 2nd amendment rights.

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Incognito View Post
    I've adopted the same position as Judge Posner. If you cannot refute him then you cannot refute me.
    I cannot think of a more brazenly intellectually lazy statement than that. You're hiding behind someone else because you cannot muster your own argument. This is truly one of the very saddest posts in Debate Politics history.

    You can't even successfully describe what Posner said.
    “Offing those rich pigs with their own forks and knives, and then eating a meal in the same room, far out! The Weathermen dig Charles Manson.”-- Bernadine Dohrn

  4. #274
    warrior of the wetlands
    TurtleDude's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Ohio
    Last Seen
    Today @ 04:12 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Right
    Posts
    180,703

    Re: 2nd amendment rights.

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    I cannot think of a more brazenly intellectually lazy statement than that. You're hiding behind someone else because you cannot muster your own argument. This is truly one of the very saddest posts in Debate Politics history.

    You can't even successfully describe what Posner said.
    Its contrarian nonsense. He won't support a position or take a clear stand.

    ITs funny to watch. He's anti gun but claims he supports the second amendment which he then says only protects those in the militia which he then claims is obsolete. ergo, there is no constitutional right to own anything



  5. #275
    Sporadic insanity normal.


    The Mark's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Pennsylvania
    Last Seen
    12-13-17 @ 11:43 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    19,736

    Re: 2nd amendment rights.

    No.

    Depending.

    I answered "No" because it's the closest to my view - There are some restrictions that seem reasonable, such as convicted violent criminals (even if they have served their time) being disallowed from purchasing guns/other weapons.
    While it is true that some of them could probably be trusted to (after serving their sentence) be good citizens, responsible gun owners, and so forth... By the same token, there are probably some completely normal-seeming people who really shouldn't have access to guns.

    Until some kind of exact method of measuring/finding who might misuse weapons is discovered - even if our morals would allow us to use such - a more generalized policy is necessary.

    Seeing as violent criminals have been violent in the past, it seems a good rule of thumb to prevent them from legal access to tools that can easily be used for violence.

    Unless you want to determine such things on a case-by-case basis - which would take up a HELL of a lot of resources.

    -----------

    On a related note, I recall reading some Sci-Fi book wherein the author envisioned his version of the optimal society structure.

    It was highly libertarian in nature, and one aspect of it was that there were no restrictions whatsoever on ownership of weapons - up to and including materials and construction (perhaps even sale, it wasn't clear on that) of nuclear weapons.

    One sub-aspect of that was basically that, if someone who wished to commit a crime with a weapon, they would most likely run into multiple persons who would be perfectly willing to use similar weapons in self-defense. Thus rendering them unable to continue their crime spree,.

    Now, this was a very simplified and (perhaps) glorified version of things, which further required multiple differences in culture of the society he imagined… As opposed to the US as it currently stands.

    My take on it was that it wouldn’t work unless everyone (or the vast majority) was of similar mindset on some key matters – high among them being personal freedom and responsibility.

    There are far too many people in the US (or anywhere I can think of, for that matter) who adhere to one or the other of those ideals, but not both, for any such setup to work without an initial spate of violence (as criminals kill and/or are killed).

    The ideas of personal freedom and personal responsibility are still (as an idealistic version of a society) one of the attractions that libertarianism (or whatever) has for me.

    But I realize that it is far from likely to occur at any point in the near (or perhaps even distant) future.

    Damn, I can really spew out words when I get going….
    Education.

    Sometimes I think we're alone. Sometimes I think we're not. In either case, the thought is staggering. ~ R. Buckminster Fuller

  6. #276
    Banned Goobieman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Last Seen
    03-22-15 @ 02:36 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    17,343

    Re: 2nd amendment rights.

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Incognito View Post
    Not a single one of those quotations you cite disproved the fact that the second amendment is a conditional sentence.
    You havent posted ANY quotations from the people involved with the 2nd that support -your- positon.
    Ergo, you have failed to prove your argument regarding the original intent of the second amendment.

  7. #277
    Banned Goobieman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Last Seen
    03-22-15 @ 02:36 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    17,343

    Re: 2nd amendment rights.

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Incognito View Post
    I've adopted the same position as Judge Posner. If you cannot refute him then you cannot refute me.
    Until you supply the necessary quotes from the people involved with the 2nd that support your claim as to their intent, your position regarding same remains unsound.
    Last edited by Goobieman; 11-17-10 at 11:30 AM.

  8. #278
    Sage
    Cephus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    CA
    Last Seen
    Today @ 04:36 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Slightly Conservative
    Posts
    29,792

    Re: 2nd amendment rights.

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    You havent posted ANY quotations from the people involved with the 2nd that support -your- positon.
    Ergo, you have failed to prove your argument regarding the original intent of the second amendment.
    You have failed to prove that original intent means jack squat today. Move along.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

    Blog me! YouTube me! VidMe me!

  9. #279
    Banned Goobieman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Last Seen
    03-22-15 @ 02:36 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    17,343

    Re: 2nd amendment rights.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    You have failed to prove that original intent means jack squat today. Move along.

    -I'm- not arguing original intent - GI is.
    But, I'll be sure to pass your message along.
    Last edited by Goobieman; 11-17-10 at 12:22 PM.

  10. #280
    ANTI**ANTIFA
    ReverendHellh0und's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Temple of Solomon
    Last Seen
    Today @ 06:03 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    75,739

    Re: 2nd amendment rights.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    You have failed to prove that original intent means jack squat today. Move along.



    If it didn't mean "jack squat today" that would mean the constitution was worthless.... will you be moving along and taking your fail with you?
    Let evil swiftly befall those who have wrongly condemned us

Page 28 of 65 FirstFirst ... 18262728293038 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •