View Poll Results: Are restrictions on the purchase/sale of firearms constitutional?

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  • Yes

    31 37.80%
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    43 52.44%
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    8 9.76%
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Thread: 2nd amendment rights.

  1. #211
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    Re: 2nd amendment rights.

    Quote Originally Posted by ReverendHellh0und View Post
    even if you were right, who is the militia?
    Today, the well-regulated militia is the standing military and law enforcement forces. At the time the Constitution was written, it was every free, able-bodied white male. Things change.
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  2. #212
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    Re: 2nd amendment rights.

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    that does not have any impact on my comments though it is true
    It ought to. You said "arms" meant small arms and did not apply to artillery, even though it clearly did apply to artillery at the time that the 2nd Amendment was written. You're arbitrarily defining what the 2nd Amendment means through modern sensibilities and then acting like you can pick and choose which historical realities support your claims. I've seen some real libertarian crazies argue for private ownership of nuclear weapons on the basis that private citizens of the time could own every single weapon available to them, from the most inoccuous to the most lethal. Does anyone really think that's a good idea?
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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  3. #213
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    Re: 2nd amendment rights.

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    Here is the dishonesty of the posts guy makes along with many statist politicians. They say they fully support the second amendment and t hen interpret it in ways that limit the citizenry in ways the founders would have loathed.
    Stop treating the founding fathers as gods. They could not possibly have foreseen the modern world, many of the things they said and did simply cannot apply to what we deal with today. This absurd level of hero worship is ridiculous.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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  4. #214
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    Re: 2nd amendment rights.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    Today, the well-regulated militia is the standing military and law enforcement forces. At the time the Constitution was written, it was every free, able-bodied white male. Things change.


    You are rather ignorant on the subject...


    Please refer to 10 U.S.C. § 311 then come back and rejoin the conversation. Thanks.
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  5. #215
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    Re: 2nd amendment rights.

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    No..... thats NOT the standard of scrutiny afforded to fundamental rights. Thats "Rational basis" andis the least stringent of the three levels of scrutiny.
    From past experience, the freedom of speech has a rational basis applied to it, and it works just fine. I haven't heard of the three levels of scrutiny, but from what you're telling me, a rational basis is allowable, under the compelling state interest requirement, and further under the narrowly tailored requirement, it comes down to the semantics of a law.

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    As I have said innumerable times:
    Background checks are a form of prior restraint. Prior restraint in an infringement. Infringements are not allowed.
    Bacjground checks will never pass strict scrutiny.
    Screw "strict scrutiny" then. If you can convince the majority of Americans thats the basis we should proceed on, then okay. Until then, all I can say we should agree to disagree.

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    That's nice... but doesnt change the fact that it creates a precondition of aright not inherent to same -- and thus, an infringement.
    There's no compelling state uinterest served by the government knowing who has guns.
    There are plenty of compelling interests in this case. By knowing who has guns, it allows the government to promote the general welfare, and ensure domestic tranquility. Same thing when you restrict crazies and criminals from having weapons.
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  6. #216
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    Re: 2nd amendment rights.

    Quote Originally Posted by repeter View Post
    ....


    Screw "strict scrutiny" then. If you can convince the majority of Americans thats the basis we should proceed on, then okay. ....

    .....
    Do you also think Screwing Strict Scrutiny should apply to race or gender discrimintaion in employment or service in a resturant?

    .

  7. #217
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    Re: 2nd amendment rights.

    Quote Originally Posted by repeter View Post
    From past experience, the freedom of speech has a rational basis applied to it, and it works just fine. I haven't heard of the three levels of scrutiny, but from what you're telling me, a rational basis is allowable, under the compelling state interest requirement, and further under the narrowly tailored requirement, it comes down to the semantics of a law.
    That's incorrect. Freedom of speech violations are going to be subject to strict scrutiny, generally. Even in the exceptions, like commercial speech, it is going to be intermediate scrutiny, not rational basis.

    Fundamental rights are always going to have strict scrutiny apply.

  8. #218
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    Re: 2nd amendment rights.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    Today, the well-regulated militia is the standing military and law enforcement forces. At the time the Constitution was written, it was every free, able-bodied white male. Things change.
    Neither a standing army NOR everyday law enforcement can ever be a "militia." One need not "worship the Founding Fathers" to understand that you're simply categorically wrong about that.
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  9. #219
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    Re: 2nd amendment rights.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    Prior to the Civil War and for quite a ways beyond it in fact, "the people" meant whites and you know it. It also meant white males, specifically land owners. Learn some history.
    That is a pack of gross overstatements.
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  10. #220
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    Re: 2nd amendment rights.

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Incognito View Post
    Goobie, just read the article by Posner, all the information you request is in there.
    Look -- its YOUR position and so it is up to YOU to back it up.
    You claim tha the intent of the people involved in the 2nd that to enjoy the protection of the 2nd, ones actions must be in direct relation to service in the militia.
    To do that, you have to quote statements from those people that support that position. If your source has those quotes, then feel free to copy and paste them, but without those quotes, your argument is unsound.

    Fact of the matter is, there are no quotes to that effect, you know it, and you're simply trying to dodge the issue.

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