View Poll Results: Are restrictions on the purchase/sale of firearms constitutional?

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  • Yes

    31 37.80%
  • No

    43 52.44%
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    8 9.76%
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Thread: 2nd amendment rights.

  1. #201
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    Re: 2nd amendment rights.

    I don't think the sale of firearms should be restricted by mental illness. Civil rights round 3.

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    Re: 2nd amendment rights.

    Quote Originally Posted by reefedjib View Post
    I don't think the sale of firearms should be restricted by mental illness. Civil rights round 3.
    I agree. A lot of people, even those who claim to be staunch gun rights advocates, take it as a given that gun ownership rights do not apply to the mentally ill. Is gun ownership not a fundamental right? We do not simply revoke fundamental rights because a person is not completely mentally healthy, that is absurd.

  3. #203
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    Re: 2nd amendment rights.

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Incognito View Post
    I agree. A lot of people, even those who claim to be staunch gun rights advocates, take it as a given that gun ownership rights do not apply to the mentally ill. Is gun ownership not a fundamental right? We do not simply revoke fundamental rights because a person is not completely mentally healthy, that is absurd.
    It's not like a mentally disturbed person couldn't get a gun even if their were laws in place.

    I personally would never sell a firearm to someone I knew to be unstable...and I think most responsible gun dealers wouldn't do so either, but not all gun dealers are responsible, and not everyone with access to guns is law-abiding in the first place. Laws won't ever change that.

  4. #204
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    Re: 2nd amendment rights.

    Quote Originally Posted by other View Post
    It's not like a mentally disturbed person couldn't get a gun even if their were laws in place.

    I personally would never sell a firearm to someone I knew to be unstable...and I think most responsible gun dealers wouldn't do so either, but not all gun dealers are responsible, and not everyone with access to guns is law-abiding in the first place. Laws won't ever change that.
    Well that's your right not to sell it, but where does the government derive its right to prohibit the sale is the question at issue.
    Last edited by Guy Incognito; 11-16-10 at 01:34 AM.

  5. #205
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    Re: 2nd amendment rights.

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Incognito View Post
    Well that's your right not to sell it, but where does the government derive it's right to prohibit the sale is the question at issue.
    Well, IMO the federal government doesn't have that right. That right has been reserved by the people and, to some degree, the states.

    EDIT: and, yes, I'm aware of current federal restrictions on the sale of firearms. Many are unconstitutional IMO.
    Last edited by other; 11-16-10 at 01:36 AM.

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    Re: 2nd amendment rights.

    Quote Originally Posted by other View Post
    Well, IMO the federal government doesn't have that right. That right has been reserved by the people and, to some degree, the states.
    True enough. And I agree with you that the gun dealer has a moral responsibility not to sell a gun to somebody who is unstable.

  7. #207
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    Re: 2nd amendment rights.

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Incognito View Post
    True enough. And I agree with you that the gun dealer has a moral responsibility not to sell a gun to somebody who is unstable.
    Yep. The key is that we actively work to promote a culture of safety, knowledge, and personal responsibility concerning firearms, not look to a huge bureaucracy to fix problems it will simply be unable to fix.

    The problems we have regarding gun violence and accidents can only effectively be addressed from the bottom up, not the top down.
    Last edited by other; 11-16-10 at 01:41 AM.

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    Re: 2nd amendment rights.

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Incognito View Post
    True enough. And I agree with you that the gun dealer has a moral responsibility not to sell a gun to somebody who is unstable.
    I disagree. There is no test. When I go to the range, I lie about having a mental illness and having been hospitalized. Otherwise I couldn't shoot. There are many mental illnesses, some which do require hospitalization, which have no impact on gun safety.

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    Re: 2nd amendment rights.

    Quote Originally Posted by reefedjib View Post
    I disagree. There is no test. When I go to the range, I lie about having a mental illness and having been hospitalized. Otherwise I couldn't shoot. There are many mental illnesses, some which do require hospitalization, which have no impact on gun safety.
    The idea is that the matter needs to be parsed out one on one at the point of sale, not by a bureaucracy issuing mandates barring certain groups or setting up restrictions in all cases. If there is no obvious reason for the seller to refuse the transaction then he probably won't, but if he should refuse to sell---for whatever reason---that's his right. If one particular seller wants to see medical records, tell him to **** off and give your money to the next guy... either way it should be the decision of the seller, not a federal mandate.

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    Re: 2nd amendment rights.

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    So.. they were expected to NOT use them for their own personal protection as well?
    At the time, I'm sure they were. Again, they lived in an entirely different era where there were no police forces, they had little choice in the matter.

    "The people" means the same in the 2nd as it does everywere else.
    Prior to the Civil War and for quite a ways beyond it in fact, "the people" meant whites and you know it. It also meant white males, specifically land owners. Learn some history.

    Really. Tell us what you think of wiretapping intercontinental telephone communications from terrorists w/o first getting a warrant.
    I oppose it. What does that have to do with the 2nd amendment?
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