View Poll Results: Are restrictions on the purchase/sale of firearms constitutional?

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  • Yes

    31 37.80%
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    43 52.44%
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    8 9.76%
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Thread: 2nd amendment rights.

  1. #191
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    Guy Incognito's Avatar
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    Re: 2nd amendment rights.

    I'm a true libertarian, so I believed in a fundamental right to gun ownership long before Scalia created one. But here's a good explanation of why, although I concur with the outcome, I think Heller is bad law:

    Quote Originally Posted by Judge Richard Posner
    If constitutional decisions are to be determined by the balance between liberals and conservatives on the Supreme Court, the fig-leafing that we find in Heller--the historicizing glaze on personal values and policy preferences--will continue to be irresistibly tempting to the justices, with their large and tireless staffs and their commitment to a mystique of "objective" interpretation. There is no way to purge political principles from constitutional decision-making, but they do not have to be liberal or conservative principles. A preference for judicial modesty--for less interference by the Supreme Court with the other branches of government--cannot be derived by some logical process from constitutional text or history. It would have to be imposed. It would be a discretionary choice by the justices. But judging from Heller, it would be a wise choice. It would go some distance toward de-politicizing the Supreme Court. It would lower the temperature of judicial confirmation hearings, widen the field of selection of justices, and enable the Supreme Court to attend to the many important non-constitutional issues that it is inclined to neglect.
    Last edited by Guy Incognito; 11-15-10 at 11:49 PM.

  2. #192
    warrior of the wetlands
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    Re: 2nd amendment rights.

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Incognito View Post
    I'm a true libertarian, so I believed in a fundamental right to gun ownership long before Scalia created one. But here's a good explanation of why, although I concur with the outcome, I think Heller is bad law:
    no you aren't. YOu have no concept of the tenth amendment or the fact that there is no proper power in the federal government to regulate arms



  3. #193
    warrior of the wetlands
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    Re: 2nd amendment rights.

    Judges have alot of power. Guns are an alternative form of power than can cut through the sort of power judges have. I don't give judges all that much deference when it comes to them ruling on a competing form of power



  4. #194
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    Re: 2nd amendment rights.

    Here's a slippery slope argument from Posner:

    Quote Originally Posted by Judge Posner
    There is a further difference between constitutional interpretations that permit government action and ones that forbid it: only the latter create new business for the federal courts. Conservatives rightly decry the enormous expansion in the federal caseload caused by the aggressive constitutional rulings of liberal justices in the 1960s. But if the new rule declared in Heller is applied to the states, we may see a similar result, this time engineered by conservatives; and we will have further confirmation that the Warren Court liberated conservative as well as liberal judges from the constraint of judicial modesty. Every time a gun permit is denied, the disappointed applicant will have a potential constitutional claim litigable in the federal courts.
    Food for thought. It certainly exposes the hypocrisy of Scalia's jurisprudence.

  5. #195
    Filmmaker Lawyer Patriot
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    Re: 2nd amendment rights.

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Incognito View Post
    I'm a true libertarian
    You've proven conclusively, over and over, on many, many topics, that you're no kind of libertarian.
    “Offing those rich pigs with their own forks and knives, and then eating a meal in the same room, far out! The Weathermen dig Charles Manson.”-- Bernadine Dohrn

  6. #196
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    Re: 2nd amendment rights.

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Incognito View Post
    Here's a slippery slope argument from Posner:



    Food for thought. It certainly exposes the hypocrisy of Scalia's jurisprudence.
    Whether or not that's true, the entire article still does nothing to refute the Standard Model.
    “Offing those rich pigs with their own forks and knives, and then eating a meal in the same room, far out! The Weathermen dig Charles Manson.”-- Bernadine Dohrn

  7. #197
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    Re: 2nd amendment rights.

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Incognito View Post
    Goobie, just read the article by Posner, all the information you request is in there. You ask for some "quotes" from people involved in writing the second amendment, and Posner has found plenty of them. He is one of the most respected judges in the United States. Please read the article.

    Here is a sample:



    Like I said, you can make an easy target of me, I'm a cartoonist, not a scholar. But the fact that you insist on arguing against me when I have already twice provided a very thorough paper with all the information you're asking for, you are verging on being disingenuous.

    The fact remains, the original intent was not to protect an individual right to keep and bear arms. I've provided ample citations to back this claim up. If you can't provided a reasonable argument against the papers I have shown you, then you have lost the argument.
    You know, it's funny; you yourself correctly say that the National Guard is not the militia, yet you post a paragraph from Posner which leads off with the historically inept trope that the National Guard is the state militia. And then his argument flows from that incorrect assertion. Yet, we're supposed to take him as the irrefutable authority of your point, when even you disagree with his unsupported and erroneous assertion.
    “Offing those rich pigs with their own forks and knives, and then eating a meal in the same room, far out! The Weathermen dig Charles Manson.”-- Bernadine Dohrn

  8. #198
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    Re: 2nd amendment rights.

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Incognito View Post
    Here's a slippery slope argument from Posner:



    Food for thought. It certainly exposes the hypocrisy of Scalia's jurisprudence.
    Anyone who follows Conlaw can tell you that Scalia is well known for his convoluted and unsubstantiated opinions.
    <font size=5><b>Its been several weeks since the Vegas shooting.  Its it still "Too Early" or can we start having the conversation about finally doing something about these mass shootings???​</b></font>

  9. #199
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    Re: 2nd amendment rights.

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    Anyone who follows Conlaw can tell you that Scalia is well known for his convoluted and unsubstantiated opinions.
    The thing is, the Warren Court and its expansion of civil rights is something to be proud of. I don't see why Scalia must persist in maintaining the illusion of originalism while advancing a partisan opinion. Just admit that your personal principles color your judicial philosophy and have done with it.

  10. #200
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    Re: 2nd amendment rights.

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Incognito View Post
    The thing is, the Warren Court and its expansion of civil rights is something to be proud of. I don't see why Scalia must persist in maintaining the illusion of originalism while advancing a partisan opinion. Just admit that your personal principles color your judicial philosophy and have done with it.
    Well....its clear to anyone who reads his opinions honestly. Scalia decides what he wants to decide and then goes through a crazy convoluted illogical maze to justify his opinion.
    <font size=5><b>Its been several weeks since the Vegas shooting.  Its it still "Too Early" or can we start having the conversation about finally doing something about these mass shootings???​</b></font>

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