View Poll Results: Are restrictions on the purchase/sale of firearms constitutional?

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    31 37.80%
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    43 52.44%
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Thread: 2nd amendment rights.

  1. #161
    warrior of the wetlands
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    Re: 2nd amendment rights.

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Incognito View Post
    Indeed. That's the thing Penn and Teller leave out in that ubiquitous video. The second amendment is a conditional sentence: A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. The first clause, the militia clause, sets up the condition that must be met that cause the latter clause to be valid.

    Unless we are to assume that the Framers wrote the militia clause for no reason, it clearly sets up a condition. The logical corollary is that the second amendment has no force if "a well regulated militia is not necessary to the security of a free state." We don't need any militia today (the national guard is not an analogue), so based on the original intent the second amendment should be considered void. Thank God for activist Justices like Scalia.
    Here is the dishonesty of the posts guy makes along with many statist politicians. They say they fully support the second amendment and t hen interpret it in ways that limit the citizenry in ways the founders would have loathed.

    His nonsense that militia service is needed to exercise the right is idiotic as his his related claim that since the militia is no longer needed, the second is no longer needed. wrong again



  2. #162
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    Re: 2nd amendment rights.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chappy View Post
    Whatever happened to the "well regulated" part?
    I know how to use my weapons, that's well regulated.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  3. #163
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    Re: 2nd amendment rights.

    Quote Originally Posted by ReverendHellh0und View Post
    Just what do you think the term "well regulated" means?
    There is enough fiber in my diet?

  4. #164
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    Re: 2nd amendment rights.

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Incognito View Post
    Indeed. That's the thing Penn and Teller leave out in that ubiquitous video. The second amendment is a conditional sentence: A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. The first clause, the militia clause, sets up the condition that must be met that cause the latter clause to be valid.
    It's not setting up a condition that must be met for the right to be active. The right is active. It's setting purpose to the right. It's in part a reminder to us all. A well regulated militia is a necessity to a free state. It's still true. So do your part and actively participate in militia duty.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  5. #165
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    Re: 2nd amendment rights.

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    I don't think regulations on gun sales is unconstitutional. Making tanks and sniper rifles illegal for citizen position doesn't prevent someone from bearing arms. The Constitutional right is protected.
    What's wrong with sniper rifles? It's the best way to prevent the ATFE from getting to your front door.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  6. #166
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    Re: 2nd amendment rights.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    It's not setting up a condition that must be met for the right to be active. The right is active. It's setting purpose to the right. It's in part a reminder to us all. A well regulated militia is a necessity to a free state. It's still true. So do your part and actively participate in militia duty.
    But there is no militia, it's been replaced by a standing military. Militia service as the founders knew it isn't even a possibility any more.

    The second amendment doesn't say anything about a well regulated army, and the Founders had grave reservations about standing armies and the threat they posed to liberty (yet another concern of theirs that has no bearing on modernity).

    I don't know how you can read the second amendment as anything other than a conditional sentence. Try diagramming it. It's grammatically a conditional. Let's just put any agenda aside for a second and be logical here.
    Last edited by Guy Incognito; 11-15-10 at 10:59 PM.

  7. #167
    warrior of the wetlands
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    Re: 2nd amendment rights.

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    What's hilarious is that he says "Funny how the standard model is only supported by some legal scholars and not any historians, huh?" -- when the historians who do support the Standard Model are often derided as not being legal scholars. Of course, if he actually had any idea what he's talking about, he'd have known that.

    (Besides, it's like saying "sure, a few doctors claim that smoking causes cancer, but funny that no dentists do!" )
    he's full of it as well-he ought to read Joyce malcom's works



  8. #168
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    Re: 2nd amendment rights.

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Incognito View Post
    But there is no militia, it's been replaced by a standing military. Militia service as the founders knew it isn't even a possibility any more.

    The second amendment doesn't say anything about a well regulated army, and the Founders had grave reservations about standing armies and the threat they posed to liberty (yet another concern of theirs that has no bearing on modernity).

    I don't know how you can read the second amendment as anything other than a conditional sentence. Try diagramming it. It's grammatically a conditional. Let's just put any agenda aside for a second and be logical here.
    so the united states code section that describes and references the militia has been repealed? I think not.

    YOu are wrong btw and no one really supports your statist interpretation. and tell me Guy-what part of the constitution overcomes the tenth amendment on this issue?



  9. #169
    Filmmaker Lawyer Patriot
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    Re: 2nd amendment rights.

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Incognito View Post
    But there is no militia, it's been replaced by a standing military. Militia service as the founders knew it isn't even a possibility any more.
    Yet, 22 states officially maintain them. Oops.

    I don't know how you can read the second amendment as anything other than a conditional sentence. Try diagramming it. It's grammatically a conditional. Let's just put any agenda aside for a second and be logical here.
    Let's.

    WHAT THE FRAMERS INTENDED: A LINGUISTIC ANALYSIS OF THE RIGHT TO "BEAR ARMS"

    Literary Analysis
    “Offing those rich pigs with their own forks and knives, and then eating a meal in the same room, far out! The Weathermen dig Charles Manson.”-- Bernadine Dohrn

  10. #170
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    Re: 2nd amendment rights.

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Incognito View Post
    I never said it protected a "collective" right, but rather it protects an individual right to keep and bear arms that is contingent on militia service.
    Anticipating you;d say that, I asked you to:
    Please cite any of the people involved in the writing and ratification of the 2nd that argued ... that to enjoy the protection of the 2nd, ones actions must be in direct relation to service in the militia.
    Well?

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