View Poll Results: Your Identity and For/Against this SS Reform model

Voters
91. You may not vote on this poll
  • Socialist and Against

    10 10.99%
  • Socialist and For

    1 1.10%
  • Democrat and Against

    21 23.08%
  • Democrat and For

    6 6.59%
  • Republican and Against

    2 2.20%
  • Republican and For

    22 24.18%
  • Libertarian and Against

    9 9.89%
  • Liberarian and For

    9 9.89%
  • I am for it, but with a particular modification (explain)

    11 12.09%
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Thread: Social Security Fix

  1. #341
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    Re: Social Security Fix

    Sounds like maybe it would work for a while. A few problems/concerns pop right out at me.

    1) If Joe has paid into SS for 40 quarters (10 years) and then opts out what happens if he becomes disabled in three years?

    2) If Joe (currently age 40) now qualifies for SS (with a projected SS benefit of $2.5K/month at age 62) then he must consider that he will likely never accumulate private savings (in just 22 years) to beat that deal; yet Joe has absolutely no guarantee that SS will actually remain "as promised" when he retires in 22 years either.

    3) My biggest concern is that as less and less voters remain in the "public option" form of SS then there is ever diminishing political pressure not to simply screw them over later.
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    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

  2. #342
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    Re: Social Security Fix

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post

    3) My biggest concern is that as less and less voters remain in the "public option" form of SS then there is ever diminishing political pressure not to simply screw them over later.
    And make no mistake about it - that indeed is the plan for many on the right who have hated Social Security from day one and have never stopped attempting to kill it. They will attempt to give us some in-between plan that keeps seniors on it but then 15 or 20 years down the road they will kill the remains of the program and the nightmare scenario comes true. Of course for them, its more like a wetdream.
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  3. #343
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    Re: Social Security Fix

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    Sounds like maybe it would work for a while. A few problems/concerns pop right out at me.

    1) If Joe has paid into SS for 40 quarters (10 years) and then opts out what happens if he becomes disabled in three years?

    2) If Joe (currently age 40) now qualifies for SS (with a projected SS benefit of $2.5K/month at age 62) then he must consider that he will likely never accumulate private savings (in just 22 years) to beat that deal; yet Joe has absolutely no guarantee that SS will actually remain "as promised" when he retires in 22 years either.

    3) My biggest concern is that as less and less voters remain in the "public option" form of SS then there is ever diminishing political pressure not to simply screw them over later.
    Shouldn't it be Joe's personal responsibility to carry disability insurance?
    Joe if he is smart, knows anything government promises can be broken like "if you like your healthcare plan you can keep it." So wouldn't it be advantageous for Joe to be in a position where he had more control over his own money? It looks like there is already bi-partisan agreement on raising the age in which you will be allowed to collect S.S. so the one that has a private account is already in better shape than the one who relies on the public option.

  4. #344
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    Re: Social Security Fix

    Quote Originally Posted by vesper View Post
    Shouldn't it be Joe's personal responsibility to carry disability insurance?
    Joe if he is smart, knows anything government promises can be broken like "if you like your healthcare plan you can keep it." So wouldn't it be advantageous for Joe to be in a position where he had more control over his own money? It looks like there is already bi-partisan agreement on raising the age in which you will be allowed to collect S.S. so the one that has a private account is already in better shape than the one who relies on the public option.
    OK. Assuming that Joe makes $25K/year he can get private, individual disabillity insurance for about $2K/year that would pay him about the same as SS which is now "free". So, sure, Joe can reduce his income by about 10% and pay for that private, individual disability insurance but why is that a good deal for Joe?

    Do You Have Enough Disability Insurance? | Bankrate.com
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

  5. #345
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    Re: Social Security Fix

    Quote Originally Posted by vesper View Post
    Shouldn't it be Joe's personal responsibility to carry disability insurance?
    Joe if he is smart, knows anything government promises can be broken like "if you like your healthcare plan you can keep it." So wouldn't it be advantageous for Joe to be in a position where he had more control over his own money? It looks like there is already bi-partisan agreement on raising the age in which you will be allowed to collect S.S. so the one that has a private account is already in better shape than the one who relies on the public option.
    To think that a private account as the sole provider of a person is going to be enough to live off of until one dies is incredibly naive. The best thing about the SS program is that is provides defined benefits for the life of the person. The person who has both private investments and social security should be fine during retirement. The person with only one will have more of an issue. Those without defined benefits are basically screwed.

  6. #346
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    Re: Social Security Fix

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    OK. Assuming that Joe makes $25K/year he can get private, individual disabillity insurance for about $2K/year that would pay him about the same as SS which is now "free". So, sure, Joe can reduce his income by about 10% and pay for that private, individual disability insurance but why is that a good deal for Joe?

    Do You Have Enough Disability Insurance? | Bankrate.com
    Social Security is neither self sustaining nor a true anti-poverty program. The idea that Joe thinks he gets something for "free" is a big part of the problem. First off, reform to S.S. disability has to be addressed redefining what truly disables a person from providing for themselves. Second, those opting out of the system will need to take personal responsibility for their own disability insurance. Something has to be done because every time S.S. has been reformed in the past it was with very optimistic ideas that it would remain solvent for many years and it never does. Social Security is projected to remain solvent through 2033, but its annual cash-flow deficits are already adding to federal deficits. In reality it may have 11 years.

  7. #347
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    Re: Social Security Fix

    Quote Originally Posted by vesper View Post
    Social Security is neither self sustaining nor a true anti-poverty program.
    Social security has reduced poverty for the elderly.

  8. #348
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    Re: Social Security Fix

    Quote Originally Posted by rabbitcaebannog View Post
    Social security has reduced poverty for the elderly.
    For those who currently rely on it they keep full benefits. But it can not be sustained as is nor is it fair to those who are younger to be forced to pay into something that may not be there in full benefits by the time they are old enough to collect. Let them have the option to open their own retirement accounts where they will get a much better return for their money. And to others still a couple of decades from retirement, why can't they reimburse them for the money they have paid with interest to add to their own retirements? Why does government have to be the answer for everything? Can't people be allowed to make their own choices and be allowed to pay the consequences for them? We should be sending the message to our youth to prepare and not count on government to take care of you!

  9. #349
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    Re: Social Security Fix

    Quote Originally Posted by vesper View Post
    For those who currently rely on it they keep full benefits. But it can not be sustained as is nor is it fair to those who are younger to be forced to pay into something that may not be there in full benefits by the time they are old enough to collect. Let them have the option to open their own retirement accounts where they will get a much better return for their money. And to others still a couple of decades from retirement, why can't they reimburse them for the money they have paid with interest to add to their own retirements? Why does government have to be the answer for everything? Can't people be allowed to make their own choices and be allowed to pay the consequences for them? We should be sending the message to our youth to prepare and not count on government to take care of you!
    It's a lie to say that we can't except to get much better return. We can tweek the system like Reagan did back in the 80s. I would say raise the cap. It's a much better option than privatizing it. If you privatize, you have less of a pool which in itself means less return. Also, money that should be yours is going toward private fees. That loss over time can be substantial. Plus you take on all the risks.

  10. #350
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    Re: Social Security Fix

    Quote Originally Posted by vesper View Post
    Social Security is neither self sustaining nor a true anti-poverty program. The idea that Joe thinks he gets something for "free" is a big part of the problem. First off, reform to S.S. disability has to be addressed redefining what truly disables a person from providing for themselves. Second, those opting out of the system will need to take personal responsibility for their own disability insurance. Something has to be done because every time S.S. has been reformed in the past it was with very optimistic ideas that it would remain solvent for many years and it never does. Social Security is projected to remain solvent through 2033, but its annual cash-flow deficits are already adding to federal deficits. In reality it may have 11 years.
    If we had a functional Congress, they could pass a few minor adjustments and keep the program going for longer. They could raise the age of eligibility, for example, and clamp down on the "disabled" who could actually work for their keep.

    But, alas, a functional Congress is sadly lacking in Washington .
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