View Poll Results: Your Identity and For/Against this SS Reform model

Voters
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  • Socialist and Against

    10 10.99%
  • Socialist and For

    1 1.10%
  • Democrat and Against

    21 23.08%
  • Democrat and For

    6 6.59%
  • Republican and Against

    2 2.20%
  • Republican and For

    22 24.18%
  • Libertarian and Against

    9 9.89%
  • Liberarian and For

    9 9.89%
  • I am for it, but with a particular modification (explain)

    11 12.09%
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Thread: Social Security Fix

  1. #321
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    Re: Social Security Fix

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    "that was the previous page. I used SS's calculator, gave them Low Income Joe's income numbers, birthdate, etc, and asked what his benefit would be. They came back with $948 a month if he retired at age 65."

    well it would seem to me that supporting source-material is something you are a bit shy on right now.
    A) are you going to share any of this information or is this a Trust Me site. If someone's wage was $25,000 in 1965, ie someone turning 65 in 2012, that person was not a low wage person.

    B) sorry I thought I had provided the link in the last comment, Moneys Worth Ratios

  2. #322
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    Re: Social Security Fix

    Quote Originally Posted by iguanaman View Post
    I have to laugh at your logic. Why is it the right wingers see employees as drains on their profits that only exist because they are generous enough to pay them a salary? Is that how you marginalize workers as a commodity or is it because you really don't understand that employees MAKE your money for you. If you lay off workers you will LOSE money not save.
    No reasonable people see the employment world as a competitive market place. What Liberals in general fail to see is the consequences of stupidity. It isn't that they fire everyone making $110,000 or more. It is that 1 company decides that the costs are simply cheaper overseas. We lose not just the $110,000 job but everyone who reports to him. "If you lay off workers you will LOSE money not save." In that case, they don't lose anything they make more.

  3. #323
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    Re: Social Security Fix

    Quote Originally Posted by JoeTheEconomist View Post
    A) are you going to share any of this information or is this a Trust Me site. If someone's wage was $25,000 in 1965, ie someone turning 65 in 2012, that person was not a low wage person.
    as I told you before, all numbers as presented in the post were adjusted for inflation.

  4. #324
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    Re: Social Security Fix

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    the cpwill plan includes popping the cap, raising the retirement age, and indexing COLA hikes to inflation rather than wages in order to cover that gap you identify. I wouldn't be averse to some means-testing, or averaging of the benefit, either.
    Is there any data that suggests this will pay for the transition? You are diverting more to private accounts than is actually being collected for SS today.

    What happens to the 54 year-old, who is stuck in a system that can't deliver any benefits. Let's look at a guy who has a $50,000 a year job - not poor Joe. This guy has probably lost $800,000 to $1 million in savings to the system. Your plan will leave him with $113,000 at the age of 67. That assumes no unemployment.

  5. #325
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    Re: Social Security Fix

    No answer I could check so I will say I am for it and the retirement age to draw it should be moved to 70...........
    "God Bless Our Troops in Harms Way."

  6. #326
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    Re: Social Security Fix

    Quote Originally Posted by JoeTheEconomist View Post
    No reasonable people see the employment world as a competitive market place. What Liberals in general fail to see is the consequences of stupidity. It isn't that they fire everyone making $110,000 or more. It is that 1 company decides that the costs are simply cheaper overseas. We lose not just the $110,000 job but everyone who reports to him. "If you lay off workers you will LOSE money not save." In that case, they don't lose anything they make more.
    If that were true then the first jobs to be outsourced would be the CEO's whose pay is astronomical. Only simpletons think that all jobs can be outsourced to the lowest bidder.

  7. #327
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    Re: Social Security Fix

    Quote Originally Posted by iguanaman View Post
    If that were true then the first jobs to be outsourced would be the CEO's whose pay is astronomical. Only simpletons think that all jobs can be outsourced to the lowest bidder.
    Iggy, It is pretty clear that you have never worked in Corporate America. The CEOs pay is astronomical, and only simpletons think that CEOs won't try to outsource whatever work there is to the lowest bidder so that they can justify their pay.

  8. #328
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    Re: Social Security Fix

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    as I told you before, all numbers as presented in the post were adjusted for inflation.
    In the other thread you said that they were not adjusted for inflation. I would like to see your numbers. Someone starting work in 1965 at 3,500 (or roughly $25,000 in 2012 dollars) whose salary goes to 34,670 over 47 working years will have a retirement account of about $569,933 assuming a return of 10% on which they can expect to draw about $854 a month.


    But walk me through the 54 year-olds numbers and see how well this works out.

  9. #329
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    Re: Social Security Fix

    I have been thinking about an idea for SS. If we could somehow tie a person's home
    mortgage into their retirement.
    So SS can invest in special mortgage funds.
    You Borrow money from yourself, and the interest paid builds up SS.
    If a person defaults, it directly affects what they get in retirement.
    I have not polished this idea any, it's just a concept.

  10. #330
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    Re: Social Security Fix

    Quote Originally Posted by JoeTheEconomist View Post
    Is there any data that suggests this will pay for the transition? You are diverting more to private accounts than is actually being collected for SS today.
    since government is on the hook for the difference, the cost slides downward off the baseline the further we get in.

    What happens to the 54 year-old, who is stuck in a system that can't deliver any benefits. Let's look at a guy who has a $50,000 a year job - not poor Joe. This guy has probably lost $800,000 to $1 million in savings to the system. Your plan will leave him with $113,000 at the age of 67. That assumes no unemployment.
    well, Medium Income Joe ended his working life with a $63,408 a year income. Using back of the napkin math, and just multiplying his total life earnings by 15%, that means that Joe has paid in a grand total of $297,575.70 to in FICA taxes.

    someone with 50K at 54 whose income goes up 2% every year and whose money averages at 7% (adjusted for inflation) every year ends up with $125,904 in savings at age 67. That gives you about a $525 a month benefit from the account, which means to get Medium Income Joe up to par (at current rates) is only going to cost the Government about $705 rather than $1,230. That's before any COLA adjustments or means-testing take place.

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