View Poll Results: Your Identity and For/Against this SS Reform model

Voters
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  • Socialist and Against

    10 10.99%
  • Socialist and For

    1 1.10%
  • Democrat and Against

    21 23.08%
  • Democrat and For

    6 6.59%
  • Republican and Against

    2 2.20%
  • Republican and For

    22 24.18%
  • Libertarian and Against

    9 9.89%
  • Liberarian and For

    9 9.89%
  • I am for it, but with a particular modification (explain)

    11 12.09%
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Thread: Social Security Fix

  1. #251
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    Re: Social Security Fix

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    what i'm talking about doing is saving these programs for our children and grandchildren.
    NOOOOO!

    The nation needs to terminate those programs to save the NATION for our grandchildren and their children. Socialism is a failed dead end and completely unamerican.

    Save the nation, ditch the socialism.

  2. #252
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    Re: Social Security Fix

    Quote Originally Posted by Mayor Snorkum View Post
    PEOPLE do exactly that, all the time. It's called "bankruptcy".

    Nations can do that.
    i think you meant to say "nations can't do that"; in which case the answer is, Yes, they can, and they do it regularly. you get to make the call-ruin yourself via hyperinflation, or ruin others via default (after which you can't borrow).

  3. #253
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    Re: Social Security Fix

    Quote Originally Posted by Mayor Snorkum View Post
    NOOOOO!

    The nation needs to terminate those programs to save the NATION for our grandchildren and their children. Socialism is a failed dead end and completely unamerican.

    Save the nation, ditch the socialism.
    private savings accounts =/= socialism = state control of the means of production.

  4. #254
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    Re: Social Security Fix

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    which is why we pop the cap in my plan. as upper income earners will now be recieving a larger percentage of their pay back tax-free than they are losing to FICA, this will give them a net benefit up to $604,000, and thus keep them from engaging in tax-avoidance schemes that tend to depress revenue collection in the face of rising rates. so you get the actual benefit of a real, statically scored, tax hike (this usually never happens).

    however, you are probably right that in addition we will have to hike the retirement age a couple of years and/or tie benefits to inflation. which is why i gave the figures in inflation-adjusted terms and provided those alternate retirement dates in my OP

    we may face a temporary reverse-flow from the general fund to social security, which would necessitate spending cuts in other areas (Paul Ryan's 2012 budget is a great place to start), but which would also quickly be reversed as people began to retire for whom there was no liability at all. that's what makes this thing sustainiable in perpetuity.
    Popping the cap is probobly a necessity, though it is probobly not entirely fair since many of these people will never see a dime of that back. I believe your plan would be feasable with reduced benefits paid out to SS beneficiaries (not your private accounts but the general ones if you know what I mean), raising the retirement age, etc. Also, a smaller amount being diverted from SS to the private accounts would be needed. You could in theory get the money from other parts of the general fund by reducing spending elsewhere, how feasible this is in reality I am not entirely convinced of.
    Last edited by drz-400; 04-11-11 at 02:27 AM.

  5. #255
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    Re: Social Security Fix

    Also, cpwill, I believe this aspect of investing in the stock market is rarely discussed. While I agree the prospects of such a system are better as far as return, overall health of the economy, etc, You have to figure in the amount of corruption, and cronyism that will arise out of the government investing practically trillions into the stock market. You think companies lobbying for government money is bad now, just wait until the government puts other peoples money up for grabs in the stock market. Basically, you need a pretty objective way for the government to do this type of investing to keep it from becoming a free for all.

  6. #256
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    Re: Social Security Fix

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    i think you meant to say "nations can't do that"; in which case the answer is, Yes, they can, and they do it regularly. you get to make the call-ruin yourself via hyperinflation, or ruin others via default (after which you can't borrow).
    Yes, the Mayor just noticed that. Thank you for spotting it.

    BTW, hyper-inflating the currency when China holds a third of the debt ruins China, too. That'll piss 'em off, big time.

  7. #257
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    Re: Social Security Fix

    Quote Originally Posted by Mayor Snorkum View Post
    Yes, the Mayor just noticed that. Thank you for spotting it.

    BTW, hyper-inflating the currency when China holds a third of the debt ruins China, too. That'll piss 'em off, big time.
    I think that was the point, that is why the US can't simply default on its obligations like you suggested earlier.

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    Re: Social Security Fix

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    private savings accounts =/= socialism = state control of the means of production.
    Hello?

    If it's "private savings accounts" it ain't social security. When someone posts "save the system" they cannot be logically referring to a new plan but must be referrin to the existing failed plan.

    If you're referring to something hokey, like when in Calfiornia they'll demolish all but one wall of a structure to maintain the pretense that the building is merely being renovated instead of replaced to take advantage of certain silly tax laws, then admit that just keeping the name isn't "preserving the system".

    The individual and only the individual bears responsibility for his future, and no one should be forced to hold their hand, especially not when they can no longer take care of themselves because their hands are busy holding others.

  9. #259
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    Re: Social Security Fix

    Quote Originally Posted by drz-400 View Post
    I think that was the point, that is why the US can't simply default on its obligations like you suggested earlier.
    THE POINT, as you put it, is that the money is GONE.

    Gone means the option of not defaulting does not exist.

  10. #260
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    Re: Social Security Fix

    The US didn't go bankrupt after WWII left us a debt far higher than the one we have now in terms of percent of GDP, yet now we find people ready to declare bankruptcy. People who consider themselves to be conservatives, no less, and who have managed their own finances conservatively, yet don't want the US government to do the same.

    We have to cut back spending and increase taxes in order to get out of the hole we're in. No one wants to hear that, of course, and no one in Washington wants to hear it. They'd much rather blather about how cutting taxes brings in more revenues, and how deficits don't matter.

    We have to look at the entire budget, not just "discretionary" spending. it's going to be painful, no question, but not as painful as hyper inflation caused by printing money or as an economic collapse caused by bankruptcy.

    The US is too big to fail. Such a default would bring the world economic system down.
    "Donald Trump is a phony, a fraud... [he's] playing the American public for suckers." Mitt Romney

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