View Poll Results: Your Identity and For/Against this SS Reform model

Voters
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  • Socialist and Against

    10 10.99%
  • Socialist and For

    1 1.10%
  • Democrat and Against

    21 23.08%
  • Democrat and For

    6 6.59%
  • Republican and Against

    2 2.20%
  • Republican and For

    22 24.18%
  • Libertarian and Against

    9 9.89%
  • Liberarian and For

    9 9.89%
  • I am for it, but with a particular modification (explain)

    11 12.09%
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Thread: Social Security Fix

  1. #231
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    Re: Social Security Fix

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    actually it is a tax program. thus sayeth the Supreme Court of the United States of America (and the FDR Administration when they put it into place)
    It's not a regular program. It's not a general fund thing like other taxes. Benefits are tied to how much you pay in.
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  2. #232
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    Re: Social Security Fix

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    my proposal was that they put 10% away, their remaining 5% and change goes to pay for current benefits for those who stay in the system, and we pop the cap to make up the difference. as people flee the system but leave a portion of their income (for the rest of their working life) behind, Social Securities liabilities will drop much, much faster than it's income, which has the popped cap applying upward pressure. but we may have to push back retirement (as we will have to do anyway) to 68 or so to make it possible to survive the period you describe.
    That might work, if the cap is removed and retirement age increased, except that most of the people who opt to stay in the system will be the older people who already have a lot "invested" in SS.

    Any way it's done, the bottom line is that those IOUs will have to be paid back. That will be the difficult part.
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  3. #233
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    Re: Social Security Fix

    Quote Originally Posted by sazerac View Post
    We get rid of all caps on social security and we start taxing all income, not just wages.

    We start increasing taxes on anybody who uses our infrastucture to sell their goods and services. And that includes all media and satelite infrastructure. This is where we put our tax focus.
    Why not toll booths? Make drivers pay for the damage they did to all our highways over the years. They can also get rid of income tax loop holes, deferments, and other arcane schemes, especially for corporate and the growing numbers of millionaires, last count, 720 million.

    I would also raise the top income tax rate to 45 or 50 percent, make a ruling that all corporations share their earnings with their employees, static wages is not nearly enough compensation for their sweat and efforts. If they refuse, nationalize them like Teddy did and the way the UK is doing it.

    ricksfolly

  4. #234
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    Re: Social Security Fix

    For years I would dive into debates like this and defend SS from the zealots of the far right who hated it in the Thirties when it was proposed and still hate it today because it violates their precious belief system and ideology.

    Now I simply take this position: I do not care what financial situation it is in. I do not care how you classify it as a program, entitlement or contract or not any of those. I do not care about your intellectual rationalization for what it has done to or for America.

    Just try to get rid of it. Just stand up and run for office and say you are ending Social Security. Do that. Please.

    All of the other stuff is simply mental masturbation.

    You wanna end SS. Stand up, run for office, take your idea to the people and say so.

    That reality kicks the collective ass of any argument you want to mount against SS. Your ideology gets trumped by the people. And the last time I looked, this was a government of the people, by the people and for the people. And the freaking Cato institute can dwell on that.
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  5. #235
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    Re: Social Security Fix

    Quote Originally Posted by iamitter View Post
    It's not a regular program. It's not a general fund thing like other taxes. Benefits are tied to how much you pay in.
    there's no reason for them to be. the Supreme Court also ruled that you do not have a right to social security "benefits".

  6. #236
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    Re: Social Security Fix

    Quote Originally Posted by iamitter View Post
    Insurance where some people pay more than others?
    If you're going receive revenues on the order of 100k/year for people who earn >1 million, you can't only let them receive the same amount as someone who dishes in 5k/year.
    Insurance where people get bigger monthly checks than others, too. If you're making $250,000 a year and you fall off a building you still get a monthy income check that resembles your working salary.

  7. #237
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    Re: Social Security Fix

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    For years I would dive into debates like this and defend SS from the zealots of the far right who hated it in the Thirties when it was proposed and still hate it today because it violates their precious belief system and ideology.
    what?

    Dude, I'm proposing that we save Social Security. My plan strengthens Social Security, and turns it into the greatest poverty reduction program in the history of our government. The alternative inevitably see's Social Security (and Medicare) ENDING as our creditors force us into severe Austerity a'la Greece (except we owe much, much more and it would thus be much, much worse).

    You have some libertarians arguing that we should get rid of the entitlements, that's true. That's why Libertarians are split in this poll. But by and large Conservatives are trying to SAVE those programs by making them sustainable.


    meanwhile, out of the party that claims to be the party of the working man, ONE person has voted in favor of letting that working man retire in a state of financial independence. and SEVEN have voted to keep him dependent on the government until the system CRASHES (which it will. Soon.)

  8. #238
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    Re: Social Security Fix

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    That might work, if the cap is removed and retirement age increased, except that most of the people who opt to stay in the system will be the older people who already have a lot "invested" in SS.

    Any way it's done, the bottom line is that those IOUs will have to be paid back. That will be the difficult part.
    dude. there's not enough money to pay back those IOU's. that is debt that is going to have to be restructured where we "pop the cap" or not.

  9. #239
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    Re: Social Security Fix

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    dude. there's not enough money to pay back those IOU's. that is debt that is going to have to be restructured where we "pop the cap" or not.
    There may not be enough will to pay back those IOUs, but it could be done. The alternative is to allow SS to fail, and then tell people who were forced to pay into it for decades, "Sorry, Charlie. Your money is gone."

    Any pol who suggests that needs to be run out of town on a rail.
    "Donald Trump is a phony, a fraud... [he's] playing the American public for suckers." Mitt Romney

  10. #240
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    Re: Social Security Fix

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    we can save a dollar for each dollar of cuts (in fact we probably net a little more due to increased growth rates); but raising taxes has been pretty solidly demonstrated to have a tenuous - you could make a good argument negative - effect on tax revenues..
    Pray tell, show us this 'solidly demonstrated'.

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