View Poll Results: Your Identity and For/Against this SS Reform model

Voters
91. You may not vote on this poll
  • Socialist and Against

    10 10.99%
  • Socialist and For

    1 1.10%
  • Democrat and Against

    21 23.08%
  • Democrat and For

    6 6.59%
  • Republican and Against

    2 2.20%
  • Republican and For

    22 24.18%
  • Libertarian and Against

    9 9.89%
  • Liberarian and For

    9 9.89%
  • I am for it, but with a particular modification (explain)

    11 12.09%
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Thread: Social Security Fix

  1. #211
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    Re: Social Security Fix

    Quote Originally Posted by iamitter View Post
    So why not let those ten percent opt out?
    Ok by me, but if their luck changes, and their assets run out, they'll have nothing to fall back on.

    ricksfolly

  2. #212
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    Re: Social Security Fix

    Quote Originally Posted by ricksfolly View Post
    Ok by me, but if their luck changes, and their assets run out, they'll have nothing to fall back on.

    ricksfolly
    Well, that's the choice they made - personal responsibility. As long as they don't come crying for welfare later, let them invest in their own retirement.
    Give a man a fish, or he will destroy the only existing vial of antidote.

  3. #213
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    Re: Social Security Fix

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    ah yes. and with what money, pray tell, we going to be achieving this laudable goal?
    The money we save by budget cuts, and the money we get from raising taxes. How are we going to pay off the money owed to SS, along with the money owed to China and other countries? The printing press?

    Oh, I almost forgot. Cutting spending is not popular, nor is raising taxes, so neither is likely to happen. We'll have to crank up those presses, I suppose.
    "Donald Trump is a phony, a fraud... [he's] playing the American public for suckers." Mitt Romney

  4. #214
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    Re: Social Security Fix

    I think that people should pay social security on all their income - by employment or by investment. Given this history of contribution you will get a very large monthly check if you become disabled or turn 70. If you never become disabled or make it to 70 a grateful nations thanks you for your kind citizenship.

  5. #215
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    Re: Social Security Fix

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    SS is not broke. It is over drawn due to politicians using it for things that it was never designed to be used for to begin with. It was designed to be used only for retirement. That's it. Instead our politicians saw it as a free dipping money jar and started "borrowing" from it in order to pay for damn near anything that they couldn't get money for legitimately.

    Want to fix SS? Make the politicians pay back all the money they "borrowed" from SS.
    Yes, it has basically "funded" our tax cuts and corporate tax structure as evidenced by the growing dependance on payroll taxes to fund the Treasury over the past 50 years...
    Attached Images Attached Images Social Security Fix-numbers_figure-2_what-federal-govt-sources-revenue_1-jpg 
    Last edited by upsideguy; 04-02-11 at 10:09 AM.

  6. #216
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    Re: Social Security Fix

    Quote Originally Posted by iamitter View Post
    Well, that's the choice they made - personal responsibility. As long as they don't come crying for welfare later, let them invest in their own retirement.

    See, this is the fundamental problem. Do you really expect all people to invest well? What if they do not? Social Security came about because the majority of people over 65 in the early 20th century were living in poverty. That has a social and real economic cost, so government pays for this anyway. The social security system and medicare just organize and systematize these social costs. The fundamental flaw in conservative thinking is that if we don't have these programs the cost and the people that are the "burden" go away. They don't. This is not an indictment of CPWill's proposal (it is intriguing for those of us comfortable with investing, but it has its flaws), but rather an indictment of people wanting to wash their hands of the inherent social problem that social security attempts to address. Its not intended to enrich its participants, but rather its a social program (yes, some level of redistribution) to ensure our elderly have some safety net in the years where they are unable to work.

    Dickens: "....are there no prisons? are there no workhouses?...."

    Is America really a Christian nation? No, as evidenced by its social policies.

  7. #217
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    Re: Social Security Fix

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Just pop the $106K cap for FICA tax for heavens sake. Then freeze benefits plus a modest inflation allowance. Problem solved.
    No, because the benefits are capped as well. This was not meant to be a program for the wealthy. It is meant as a safety net.

    The unfortunate thing is that payroll tax revenue has become an increasingly larger contributor to total tax receipts. What we need to do is raise income taxes, largely on corporations, by cutting tax rates (which will help the multi-nationals declare more US income) and instituting a better corporate minimum tax for companies wishing to do business in the US; but also increase personal income tax rates on wages greater then $1.0M. High wage income should be taxed at 50% or greater and capital gains should be lowered to 10% with a 3-year holding period to disincentivize companies from paying money out in executive wages in lieu of re-investing in their own businesses and expanding jobs.

  8. #218
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    Re: Social Security Fix

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    The money we save by budget cuts, and the money we get from raising taxes
    we can save a dollar for each dollar of cuts (in fact we probably net a little more due to increased growth rates); but raising taxes has been pretty solidly demonstrated to have a tenuous - you could make a good argument negative - effect on tax revenues.

    How are we going to pay off the money owed to SS, along with the money owed to China and other countries? The printing press?
    we can't do both. but reforming social security can become a tool for giving the poor financial independence (as outlined in the OP), whereas defaulting on our debt will destroy the world (and hence, our) economy.

    Oh, I almost forgot. Cutting spending is not popular, nor is raising taxes, so neither is likely to happen. We'll have to crank up those presses, I suppose.
    why, that's Glenn Beck Talk!

    hyperinflation also destroys the economy, i'm thinking that admitting we already speant the money reforming SS remains the better option.
    Last edited by cpwill; 04-02-11 at 11:50 AM.

  9. #219
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    Re: Social Security Fix

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    we can save a dollar for each dollar of cuts (in fact we probably net a little more due to increased growth rates); but raising taxes has been pretty solidly demonstrated to have a tenuous - you could make a good argument negative - effect on tax revenues.



    we can't do both. but reforming social security can become a tool for giving the poor financial independence (as outlined in the OP), whereas defaulting on our debt will destroy the world (and hence, our) economy.



    why, that's Glenn Beck Talk!

    hyperinflation also destroys the economy, i'm thinking that admitting we already speant the money reforming SS remains the better option.
    OMG! I'm starting to sound like Glenn Beck!

    It does appear that the country has a lack of leadership that is willing to take on the hard questions. Budget imbalance that amounts to $15,000 per taxpayer? Whatever shall we do (hand wringing)? Let's see if we can cut this program, that program, another program... what have we proposed so far? A cut of $1 out of that $15,000. But any real cuts will be unpopular! We can't do what is unpopular. Oh, yes, let's by all means extend the Bush tax cuts! We can't raise taxes, that will decrease government income. How do we know? Well, just look at how well trickle down economics worked in the Reagan years. Sure, that's when the deficits started, but the voters really want to believe that cutting taxes increases revenues, and no one wants to pay more.

    Now about that $15,000, let's see if we can blame it on the other party.

    Yep. Printing presses and hyperinflation do appear to be a real possibility.
    "Donald Trump is a phony, a fraud... [he's] playing the American public for suckers." Mitt Romney

  10. #220
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    Re: Social Security Fix

    yup, you sound about like Glenn Beck; both parties are responsible, and at this rate they will end up with no choice but to monetize the debt.



    perhaps in partial answer of an earlier question about the OP


    from April 2011 Wall Street Journals Smart Money: "Nest Eggs: Thinking Outside The Box"

    ...Not long ago, Burchett's financial planner would have turned up his nose at the idea of putting retirement funds into these insurance contracts. Annuities can be expensive and confusing, and the stoock marcket seemed like such a better deal deal... Today, of course, plenty of people need it, including Burchett. he plowed $250,000 into an annuity that promises to pay him $1,885 a month...

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