View Poll Results: Your Identity and For/Against this SS Reform model

Voters
91. You may not vote on this poll
  • Socialist and Against

    10 10.99%
  • Socialist and For

    1 1.10%
  • Democrat and Against

    21 23.08%
  • Democrat and For

    6 6.59%
  • Republican and Against

    2 2.20%
  • Republican and For

    22 24.18%
  • Libertarian and Against

    9 9.89%
  • Liberarian and For

    9 9.89%
  • I am for it, but with a particular modification (explain)

    11 12.09%
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Thread: Social Security Fix

  1. #161
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    Re: Social Security Fix

    Quote Originally Posted by OhIsee.Then View Post
    Check history, housing the poor in the US before SS, housing the SMI before SS, etc.
    You just can't support your position factually.
    You mind showing me that the poor weren't improving back then?

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
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  2. #162
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    Re: Social Security Fix

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    You think people don't care about their futures and that people don't act the way they do because of the moral hazard of social safety net programs?
    i think that we don't have a savings culture, that not having a safety net isn't politically viable, and that it should thus be constructed in such a manner as to prove as economically undamaging and wealth-building as possible.

  3. #163
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    Re: Social Security Fix

    Social security is much more complex than the sound bites most people are privy to. I count myself in that group. Having said that, and based on my limited understanding of the overall system (and with the understanding that it isnt likely to go away-ever), I think it makes sense to modernize and consistently evaluate the system. We cant keep operating a system under the same guidelines that existed 40-50 years ago. So I think it makes sense to revealuate every 5 years the current state. Has there been in an increase in life expectancy? Sure. So should the eligible age to collect SS be adjusted upward? Of course (retirment age would be grandfathered at say, 45 and up). Are there more people as a percentage) collecting SS benefits? Yes. Then it makes sense for an increase in SS tax levels. Id also institute an income cap (not a populare decision...I know). But if someone has though investments and earnings an income of over $250k they would be ineligible to recieve SS payments (but still eligible for health care benefits). Should they loose that income potential their full benefits would be reinstated. Should they die without collecting so much as a penny, then their family would recieve a taxed refund check).

    Along with changes there should be an information drive taught during Jr High and High school and a consistent message. Social Security is NOT MEANT as a means of retirement. SS is a supplemental income to your retirement. Work, save, invest.

  4. #164
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    Re: Social Security Fix

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    i think that we don't have a savings culture,
    That's due to inflation, which is why having assets instead is a much better option.

    that not having a safety net isn't politically viable, and that it should thus be constructed in such a manner as to prove as economically undamaging and wealth-building as possible.
    The more privatization the better, but I'm not going to hide my ultimate goals of completely getting the government out of charity.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

  5. #165
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    Re: Social Security Fix

    ultimate goals are fine; but moving in the right direction is still positive. it's a compromise position; not where i want to end up.

  6. #166
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    Re: Social Security Fix

    Speaking of SS reform, anyone know when the last time the FICA Cap of $106,500 was updated?
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  7. #167
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    Re: Social Security Fix

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Speaking of SS reform, anyone know when the last time the FICA Cap of $106,500 was updated?
    2008
    10char
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  8. #168
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    Re: Social Security Fix

    Quote Originally Posted by iamitter View Post
    2008
    10char
    Thanks! I just found a site that shows the cap since 1937:

    Contribution and Benefit Base

    It looks like from 1972 until 2008 it was increase slightly each each year. We are overdue for another increase.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  9. #169
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    Re: Social Security Fix

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    And I should be forced to provide for them when they make these stupid decisions in life? Talk about a moral hazard.
    Oh thank you for getting down to the nut of it.

    When a poor uninsured person uses the ER and doesnít pay, your out of pocket cost for the ER goes up and you insurance premiums go up. When a drunk driver totals his and anotherís car, you pay because the insurance company raises everybodyís rates. When a coworker screws something up (CEO or assembler) you pay because you work there (you might have been on the platform), or you fish the gulf, or you buy gas, or of if you bought BP stock before the blowout. (I bought after the blowout, sold a while ago, did great.) Yup, you pay for people that make stupid decisions in life all the time, and more than you think. I was pissed when I figured that out.

    When people use the social safety net, the environment you live in is greatly improved. Unless you ship them off to some low cost place. You will not have the SMI scattered everywhere, 70 year olds will not be cleaning windshields at every intersection, etc. The lazy ineffective low wage people donít become rich, and probably will have to move to a cheap apartment. The hard workers that made some money get more back and can stay in their home instead of doubling up. And the people with the 6 figure incomes can use the extra to ski Telluride. And if the 7 figure income (getting differed income also) people are complaining I just donít know what to say.

    And what is your cost for this? It is basically the difference between what you can get investing the same amount vs. the Ďreturní (cola) that SS might yield. That difference in dollars (PV or FV) is less than 10% of what you pay in SS tax (FICA). Our view is that SS is conservative part of our portfolio, and with or without the fixes it needs it will do well for us.

  10. #170
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    Re: Social Security Fix

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Here is my proposal:

    Allow workers to opt into a partially privatized system, where of their 7.65% FICA expenditures, 5% goes into a private TSP-style account; and the Employers match follow the same. the remaining 2.65% (or, when you count the match, 5.3%) will go straight into SS, but it will be revenue for which SS will never see a liability. the cost for opting out is that part of your pay continues to go to pay for others, but the upside is that you get a combined total of 10% of your annual income going into a retirement account that belongs to you, and grows tax-free. Social Securities' revenues will instantly drop, but nowhere near as severely as their liabilities. To ensure solvency in the adjustment period (and to make it politically palatable); lift the cap. We can lift the cap on only the worker (and not the employer) if we want to encourage job-creation; or lift it on both if we need the revenue to ensure solvency, or if that's the only way to get the thing passed; here is room for compromise wiggling. Higher paid workers will see more of their money leave in the form of taxes, but those making less than $604,000 will get back even more in the form of ownership of personalized accounts (assuming the employer cap isn't lifted, and that's not figuring for the added benefit of those accounts growing tax-free), and so they will be willing to make the trade. Perhaps another compromise point would be to raise the cap to $604K. Poorer workers can either spend their lifetime building far more wealth than they ever would have seen under Social Security if they are younger, or keep the guaranteed program benefits if they are older.

    ta-da! the American people and the Government are left better off.
    Although I suppose the specifics of the plan would need to be tweaked, I think this is on the right track for how to address social security. Also, if the government is worried about the market tanking and wiping out people's savings, these private accounts could have a mechanism to deal with that: Mandate that a certain percentage of them went into low-risk investments like bonds, and the minimum percentage of low-risk investments could slowly increase as a person neared retirement age.

    I do like the idea and would support something along these lines. Another change we'll probably need to make is to raise the retirement age a few years. 65 just isn't sustainable now that people live well into their 80s and 90s.
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