View Poll Results: Your Identity and For/Against this SS Reform model

Voters
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  • Socialist and Against

    10 10.99%
  • Socialist and For

    1 1.10%
  • Democrat and Against

    21 23.08%
  • Democrat and For

    6 6.59%
  • Republican and Against

    2 2.20%
  • Republican and For

    22 24.18%
  • Libertarian and Against

    9 9.89%
  • Liberarian and For

    9 9.89%
  • I am for it, but with a particular modification (explain)

    11 12.09%
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Thread: Social Security Fix

  1. #131
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    Re: Social Security Fix

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Tammerlain View Post
    Benifits do seem too high and should be adjusted along with the retirement age
    Along with the FICA cap.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  2. #132
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    Re: Social Security Fix

    Quote Originally Posted by OhIsee.Then View Post
    Oh I see cpwill, so SS is not a retirement investment program; i.e. you put your money in, itís invested and you get that money back later.

    Then SS is a pay as you go program that is in trouble because not enough people are paying in, benefits too high, and we spend the extra that should help get the program through poor economic times, etc. (I must say that I donít feel disabused.)

    Now, to the root of the matter, if there isnít a forced savings for retirement program or a pay as you go program, what will there be for retirees that havenít saved? Back to poor houses? There are millions of them. Charities will be over whelmed. I donít want them begging on my streets. Could we just make being stupid and poor illegal? Are you just frustrated with the stupid and poor; or, cpwill, do you have a solution for this?
    if you will look back at the original post, you will note that i designed this specifically so that it would provide a special benefit precisely for the working poor. at no additional cost to themselves (and, it should be noted, with no change in their bahavior away from consumption and towards spending) they have the ability to grow privately invested wealth.

    so A) they still don't have a choice, and B) under my program, on top of SS becoming sustainable with a differently shaped demographic pool (which we now have), people get larger benefits.

  3. #133
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    Re: Social Security Fix

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    More investment in total means more capital in total which means more production in total which benefits all of us. We would have more wealth if the money was invested. Even if some people did fail, we would all be richer and they could either have a savings in backup or find some charity or live off of their now richer kids.
    do you see American's moving to a 10% savings rate any time soon?

  4. #134
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    Re: Social Security Fix

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    do you see American's moving to a 10% savings rate any time soon?
    Take away their benefits and they'll have much more of an incentive to do just that. Of course, with inflation being the devil that it is, savings is penalized, and I see that as being the main obstacle to saving for a retirement.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

  5. #135
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    Re: Social Security Fix

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    You forget the more risk part. And your only answer for the millions that could fail is that it is the responsibility of charities? What do you need more money for anyway? You said you could live comfortably with a family of 4 on $22,000.
    Doesn't mean I would want to live at that level. I want to become more prosperous, and having more money invested in the economy does just that.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

  6. #136
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    Re: Social Security Fix

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    So you expect someone else to care about the poor so you don't have too? Does it get in the way of accumulating personal wealth?
    I like how you portray me as greedy. What do you know about me and my views toward charity? Absolutely nothing. You make the assumption that because I don't support the thievery of government paying for the poor that I must hate the poor. It's far from the case. I fully support voluntary charity as it does not require an immoral act.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

  7. #137
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    Re: Social Security Fix

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    They seemed to be doing pretty well. We didn't have a mass of starving people before social security came about.



    These are just statistics you made up in your head, so why should I care?



    Because they have in the past and today are much more effective than government spending at lifting people out of poverty to make them independent.
    I put up a straw man for you to knock down with your assumptions or research. (Iíve visited the charities you think can pick up the slack. Put a relative in one after doing some research. It wasnít good.) You made a claim with no thought at all. I challenged it with some thought. A first order approximation shows your assumption is just wishful thinking. Support you position. Bet you canít.

  8. #138
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    Re: Social Security Fix

    Quote Originally Posted by OhIsee.Then View Post
    I put up a straw man for you to knock down with your assumptions or research. (I’ve visited the charities you think can pick up the slack. Put a relative in one after doing some research. It wasn’t good.) You made a claim with no thought at all. I challenged it with some thought. A first order approximation shows your assumption is just wishful thinking. Support you position. Bet you can’t.
    What was wrong with what I said? The fact is, there isn't much of a reason for charities to do a lot of work because government is doing a lot of the work for us. Trying to find examples of the kind of charity I'm envisioning in today's age is asking the impossible.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

  9. #139
    White trash on dope.
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    Re: Social Security Fix

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    And that will be the end of the savings? They won't have insurance to take care of the catastrophe? Please.
    Are you insinuating that there won't be any people that will use their retirement savings for something else. If the government can do it, surely there will be those that will use their funds for other things when they are in dire straits. Then come retirement time = zilch. No SS, no nada.
    Quote Originally Posted by Northern Light View Post
    The systems that ensure freedom and liberty are breaking down and fundamentalism is growing. Nobody is righteous anymore.


  10. #140
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    Re: Social Security Fix

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    Doesn't mean I would want to live at that level. I want to become more prosperous, and having more money invested in the economy does just that.
    Yes, we all want to become more prosperous but we all have to do it together. The trickle down theory and deregulation have been a failure of accomplishing that. We have 3 decades of experience to show that. It has brought us an unmanageable National debt and a declining middle class, the exactly opposite direction we need to be going in.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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