View Poll Results: Your Identity and For/Against this SS Reform model

Voters
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  • Socialist and Against

    10 10.99%
  • Socialist and For

    1 1.10%
  • Democrat and Against

    21 23.08%
  • Democrat and For

    6 6.59%
  • Republican and Against

    2 2.20%
  • Republican and For

    22 24.18%
  • Libertarian and Against

    9 9.89%
  • Liberarian and For

    9 9.89%
  • I am for it, but with a particular modification (explain)

    11 12.09%
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Thread: Social Security Fix

  1. #121
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    Re: Social Security Fix

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Tammerlain View Post
    Thankfully it is not an investment then
    It isn't meant to be, but that's what it became.
    If it was a pay as you go, where one person now pays for another's retirement in exchange for the same later, the benefits provided by it are way too high.
    Give a man a fish, or he will destroy the only existing vial of antidote.

  2. #122
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    Re: Social Security Fix

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Its idiotic to think that everyone is going to invest their money wisely. And SS is not an investment program, it is an insurance program that we have all paid into. Perhaps there are some charities to help with the greed issues you wrote about.
    More investment in total means more capital in total which means more production in total which benefits all of us. We would have more wealth if the money was invested. Even if some people did fail, we would all be richer and they could either have a savings in backup or find some charity or live off of their now richer kids.

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  3. #123
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    Re: Social Security Fix

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    Why do you think that private charity can't fill the void?
    Because charities didnít before SS. Take a look at how charities were doing before SS started.

    Todayís charities are just barely feeding the few street people we have now.
    My guess is that 50% +/- 25% of our Ďadultí population canít/wonít invest for retirement. So the numbers of people needing charity would increase to between 1000 to 3000%. The amount of money necessary to keep a street person fed is about one fifth the cost of housing a retired person in permanent housing, i.e. not a tent. So I think charities would need to increase their capacity between 5000 to 15000%.

    Why do you think charities would fill the void?

  4. #124
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    Re: Social Security Fix

    Quote Originally Posted by OhIsee.Then View Post
    Because charities didn’t before SS. Take a look at how charities were doing before SS started.
    They seemed to be doing pretty well. We didn't have a mass of starving people before social security came about.

    Today’s charities are just barely feeding the few street people we have now.
    My guess is that 50% +/- 25% of our ‘adult’ population can’t/won’t invest for retirement. So the numbers of people needing charity would increase to between 1000 to 3000%. The amount of money necessary to keep a street person fed is about one fifth the cost of housing a retired person in permanent housing, i.e. not a tent. So I think charities would need to increase their capacity between 5000 to 15000%.
    These are just statistics you made up in your head, so why should I care?

    Why do you think charities would fill the void?
    Because they have in the past and today are much more effective than government spending at lifting people out of poverty to make them independent.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

  5. #125
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    Re: Social Security Fix

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    And all the money in SS: is it invested? All that money being in the stock market would be a boon for growth. Are those funds loaned out as investments would be? Or are they just stuffed under the proverbial mattress?
    Neither one. SS funds go into the general fund and are spent on everything from welfare to wars. That's why the fund is in trouble.
    "Donald Trump is a phony, a fraud... [he's] playing the American public for suckers." Mitt Romney

  6. #126
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    Re: Social Security Fix

    Quote Originally Posted by iamitter View Post
    Those that don't can continue to pay into SS.
    Pooling of funds for insurance coverage does not work as well with a small pool.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  7. #127
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    Re: Social Security Fix

    It is broke my friend...you do know that there is no "lock box"?

    Now..I am a Conservatarian...and I am for it

    Quote Originally Posted by pbrauer View Post
    Social Security is not broken. Also SS is not a retirement plan, it's insurance against poverty either in old age or if you become incapacitated when your young enough to work. I can't confirm this, but I've heard as much as 30% of current recipient are young enough to work, but can't.
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  8. #128
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    Re: Social Security Fix

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    More investment in total means more capital in total which means more production in total which benefits all of us. We would have more wealth if the money was invested. Even if some people did fail, we would all be richer and they could either have a savings in backup or find some charity or live off of their now richer kids.
    You forget the more risk part. And your only answer for the millions that could fail is that it is the responsibility of charities? What do you need more money for anyway? You said you could live comfortably with a family of 4 on $22,000.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  9. #129
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    Re: Social Security Fix

    OhISee, Then - "Why do you think charities would fill the void
    ?


    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    Because they have in the past and today are much more effective than government spending at lifting people out of poverty to make them independent.
    So you expect someone else to care about the poor so you don't have too? Does it get in the way of accumulating personal wealth?
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  10. #130
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    Re: Social Security Fix

    Quote Originally Posted by iamitter View Post
    It isn't meant to be, but that's what it became.
    If it was a pay as you go, where one person now pays for another's retirement in exchange for the same later, the benefits provided by it are way too high.
    Benifits do seem too high and should be adjusted along with the retirement age
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