View Poll Results: Your Identity and For/Against this SS Reform model

Voters
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  • Socialist and Against

    10 10.99%
  • Socialist and For

    1 1.10%
  • Democrat and Against

    21 23.08%
  • Democrat and For

    6 6.59%
  • Republican and Against

    2 2.20%
  • Republican and For

    22 24.18%
  • Libertarian and Against

    9 9.89%
  • Liberarian and For

    9 9.89%
  • I am for it, but with a particular modification (explain)

    11 12.09%
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Thread: Social Security Fix

  1. #111
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    Re: Social Security Fix

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Efficient, as in little waste in running the program. Secure as having not been lost in the market collapse. The interest at my bank has been terrible as well, and we lost a fair sum of money due to the stock market crash. Higher risk funds do earn more interest but there are risks. What if they spend it instead of saving it? If we have to turn around and support those that have made bad investment choices, what have we gained?
    What if they spend it instead of saving it? What are we, parents of idiots? People can take care of themselves. We need not decide their time preference. If they want to save less and think they can live on it then let them do it. If it wasn't enough, then oh well, they can try to find charity. We should not force people into making good decisions if their bad decisions only affect themselves.

    Now, do we get all the money back that we put in? If we live long enough surely, but what if we die young? What happens to all the money that we put in? I know that SS has a program for the relatives of the deceased person, but do they get back all that was put in? Or is some of it inevitably lost? With personal savings accoutnts it isn't a problem, but what happens with SS?

    And all the money in SS: is it invested? All that money being in the stock market would be a boon for growth. Are those funds loaned out as investments would be? Or are they just stuffed under the proverbial mattress?

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

  2. #112
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    Re: Social Security Fix

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    My concern is what if they make bad investment, get swindled, or simply spend the money. What happens then?
    This happens all the time with people's investments. Should we guarantee that people will not lose int he stock market?

    I see where you are coming from and there is something to that, but ultimately I see it as a way to prevent having to throw old and disabled people out in the street.
    They're adults, they should provide for themselves. In the worst case scenario they can find charity.

    Its not welfare, its a fund we all pay into to assist in our retirement, or if we become disabled.
    So we get back exactly what we put in? If not then it is welfare, at least for somebody.

    As the economy improves, so will the rate of return. However, the rate of return is secondary to me to have a secure mechanism to help protect ALL of our old folks and the disabled.
    It's called a savings account. Get one.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

  3. #113
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    Re: Social Security Fix

    Some on this board will claim they received much more in payments than they put in. As any investment SS has gets a pitiful return rate, especially after inflation, this means that inevitably, some people won't get what they put in.
    Give a man a fish, or he will destroy the only existing vial of antidote.

  4. #114
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    Re: Social Security Fix

    For phattonez and others.

    What if they spend it instead of saving it?
    They are broke. Weíll need a law to keep them out of the ERís etc.
    What are we, parents of idiots?
    Sorry, yes.
    People can take care of themselves.
    They have proven over and over that they canít.
    We should not force people into making good decisions if their bad decisions only affect themselves.
    Yes! YES! But weíll need some laws that allow that allow us to ship them off somewhere so I wonít have to move to a gated community with a private police force. Iíll be sorry to see you ship my in-laws out, but oh well as long as I don't have to do it.

  5. #115
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    Re: Social Security Fix

    Quote Originally Posted by OhIsee.Then View Post
    For phattonez and others.

    What if they spend it instead of saving it?
    They are broke. We’ll need a law to keep them out of the ER’s etc.
    What are we, parents of idiots?
    Sorry, yes.
    People can take care of themselves.
    They have proven over and over that they can’t.
    We should not force people into making good decisions if their bad decisions only affect themselves.
    Yes! YES! But we’ll need some laws that allow that allow us to ship them off somewhere so I won’t have to move to a gated community with a private police force. I’ll be sorry to see you ship my in-laws out, but oh well as long as I don't have to do it.
    Why do you think that private charity can't fill the void?

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

  6. #116
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    Re: Social Security Fix

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    What if they spend it instead of saving it? What are we, parents of idiots? People can take care of themselves. We need not decide their time preference. If they want to save less and think they can live on it then let them do it. If it wasn't enough, then oh well, they can try to find charity. We should not force people into making good decisions if their bad decisions only affect themselves.
    Only affects themselves? 7 out of 10 Americans are now officially poor. Does that help our economy or hurt it? Now you want to make matters worse by throwing more old and disabled people to the street? How is that supposed to help? Not to mention the moral implications.

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    They're adults, they should provide for themselves. In the worst case scenario they can find charity.

    "Are there no prisons? Are there no workhouses?" - Charles Dickens
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  7. #117
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    Re: Social Security Fix

    Quote Originally Posted by iamitter View Post
    Some on this board will claim they received much more in payments than they put in. As any investment SS has gets a pitiful return rate, especially after inflation, this means that inevitably, some people won't get what they put in.
    Thankfully it is not an investment then
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  8. #118
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    Re: Social Security Fix

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Only affects themselves? 7 out of 10 Americans are now officially poor. Does that help our economy or hurt it? Now you want to make matters worse by throwing more old and disabled people to the street? How is that supposed to help? Not to mention the moral implications.
    Wow. Anyway, allowing people to keep this money allows them to invest it themselves which grows the economy and makes us all richer. Furthermore, why do you continue to ignore the work of charity?

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

  9. #119
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    Re: Social Security Fix

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    Wow. Anyway, allowing people to keep this money allows them to invest it themselves which grows the economy and makes us all richer. Furthermore, why do you continue to ignore the work of charity?
    Its idiotic to think that everyone is going to invest their money wisely. And SS is not an investment program, it is an insurance program that we have all paid into. Perhaps there are some charities to help with the greed issues you wrote about.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  10. #120
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    Re: Social Security Fix

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Its idiotic to think that everyone is going to invest their money wisely. And SS is not an investment program, it is an insurance program that we have all paid into. Perhaps there are some charities to help with the greed issues you wrote about.
    Those that don't can continue to pay into SS.
    Give a man a fish, or he will destroy the only existing vial of antidote.

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