View Poll Results: Your Identity and For/Against this SS Reform model

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  • Socialist and Against

    10 10.99%
  • Socialist and For

    1 1.10%
  • Democrat and Against

    21 23.08%
  • Democrat and For

    6 6.59%
  • Republican and Against

    2 2.20%
  • Republican and For

    22 24.18%
  • Libertarian and Against

    9 9.89%
  • Liberarian and For

    9 9.89%
  • I am for it, but with a particular modification (explain)

    11 12.09%
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Thread: Social Security Fix

  1. #101
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    Re: Social Security Fix

    SS was started as a pay as you go program, but it did collect more money than it needed. We spent that money on other things. So, no money is invested. From an investment POV, I look this way: Iíll work for someone else for a couple of hours this week if someone else will work a couple hours for me in the future.

    Please, someone tell me where I can disabuse myself of my misunderstanding that SS was originally and is now a pay as you go program, not an investment program.

    (I know the Ďsurplusí is used (robbed) to lower taxes, but that is another issue.

  2. #102
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    Re: Social Security Fix

    Opting out is off the table. SS needs full participation to work the way it is now and in the future.

    ricksfolly

  3. #103
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    Re: Social Security Fix

    Quote Originally Posted by ricksfolly View Post
    Opting out is off the table. SS needs full participation to work the way it is now and in the future.

    ricksfolly
    Why? And Why? A bit of detail please.

  4. #104
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    Re: Social Security Fix

    Quote Originally Posted by pbrauer View Post
    Social Security is not broken. Also SS is not a retirement plan, it's insurance against poverty either in old age or if you become incapacitated when your young enough to work. I can't confirm this, but I've heard as much as 30% of current recipient are young enough to work, but can't.
    According to the Dept of labor, 75.8 million 18 and over aren't even looking for jobs for a variety of reasons.

    Most are probably living with their parents.

    ricksfolly

  5. #105
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    Re: Social Security Fix

    Quote Originally Posted by ricksfolly View Post
    According to the Dept of labor, 75.8 million 18 and over aren't even looking for jobs for a variety of reasons.

    Most are probably living with their parents.

    ricksfolly
    A lot of older people are back at college - like me. Over 1/2 of my algebra class is nontraditional.
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  6. #106
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    Re: Social Security Fix

    Quote Originally Posted by ricksfolly View Post
    According to the Dept of labor, 75.8 million 18 and over aren't even looking for jobs for a variety of reasons.

    Most are probably living with their parents.

    ricksfolly
    People are unemployed and not paying SS. And, if they are living with their parents they probably arenít collecting SS. So, please explain what this has to do with SS. thx

  7. #107
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    Re: Social Security Fix

    Quote Originally Posted by OhIsee.Then View Post
    SS was started as a pay as you go program, but it did collect more money than it needed. We spent that money on other things. So, no money is invested. From an investment POV, I look this way: I’ll work for someone else for a couple of hours this week if someone else will work a couple hours for me in the future.

    Please, someone tell me where I can disabuse myself of my misunderstanding that SS was originally and is now a pay as you go program, not an investment program.

    (I know the ‘surplus’ is used (robbed) to lower taxes, but that is another issue.
    Yes, this is correct. Any surplus money has to be used to buy government bonds, however.

    @Catawba, return rate on bonds isn't dependant on the economy, but on the value of the dollar and how many people want to buy US debt. Some might view it as a"safe" investment in economic downturns, increasing demand and thus lowering its return rate during recessions. Vice versa during economic expansions. So its only indirectly dependant on the economy.
    Give a man a fish, or he will destroy the only existing vial of antidote.

  8. #108
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    Re: Social Security Fix

    Quote Originally Posted by ricksfolly View Post
    Opting out is off the table. SS needs full participation to work the way it is now and in the future.

    ricksfolly
    Why? If people can opt out, those who feel they don't need it won't pay in and won't take out.

    Perhaps there can be some limits, where you're not qualified for much if any welfare if things don't work out for you, as you didn't choose to pay into SS.
    Give a man a fish, or he will destroy the only existing vial of antidote.

  9. #109
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    Re: Social Security Fix

    Quote Originally Posted by OhIsee.Then View Post
    SS was started as a pay as you go program, but it did collect more money than it needed. We spent that money on other things. So, no money is invested. From an investment POV, I look this way: Iíll work for someone else for a couple of hours this week if someone else will work a couple hours for me in the future.
    Without knowing it, I trust, you have mischaracterized SS. Then you offer options to what it isnít. There is a name for this, but I forgot what it is.
    i am aware of how Social Security is supposed to function (and the differences in how it was sold, how it functions, and how it was defended in court). I am also aware, however, that "how it functions" is similar in form to a pyramid scheme, and we are running out of new suckers. when the program began, you had 12 workers paying for every retiree; very doable. surely you can give up a 12th of the cost of insuring an elderly person against poverty for a short time (the life expectation, after all, was about the same age as "retirement"). in 1960 it was a little over 5 workers for every retiree; still plenty sustainable.

    however, now we are rapidly approaching the point (thanks to living longer, lower birthrates, and the baby boomer generation messing with our demographics) where we are going to have to be supporting each retiree with 2 workers. on top of that, the "savings" that we've been putting in the "trust fund" for the past several decades to help us out at this moment have all been frittered away on very important pork projects.

    so, the "pay as you go" isn't really an option any more. the unfunded liabilities from Social (in)Security are towering (though admittedly those from Medicare are even more mind-boggling).

  10. #110
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    Re: Social Security Fix

    Oh I see cpwill, so SS is not a retirement investment program; i.e. you put your money in, itís invested and you get that money back later.

    Then SS is a pay as you go program that is in trouble because not enough people are paying in, benefits too high, and we spend the extra that should help get the program through poor economic times, etc. (I must say that I donít feel disabused.)

    Now, to the root of the matter, if there isnít a forced savings for retirement program or a pay as you go program, what will there be for retirees that havenít saved? Back to poor houses? There are millions of them. Charities will be over whelmed. I donít want them begging on my streets. Could we just make being stupid and poor illegal? Are you just frustrated with the stupid and poor; or, cpwill, do you have a solution for this?

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