View Poll Results: Your Identity and For/Against this SS Reform model

Voters
91. You may not vote on this poll
  • Socialist and Against

    10 10.99%
  • Socialist and For

    1 1.10%
  • Democrat and Against

    21 23.08%
  • Democrat and For

    6 6.59%
  • Republican and Against

    2 2.20%
  • Republican and For

    22 24.18%
  • Libertarian and Against

    9 9.89%
  • Liberarian and For

    9 9.89%
  • I am for it, but with a particular modification (explain)

    11 12.09%
Page 10 of 51 FirstFirst ... 8910111220 ... LastLast
Results 91 to 100 of 503

Thread: Social Security Fix

  1. #91
    White trash on dope.
    d0gbreath's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Denton, TX
    Last Seen
    @
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    8,875

    Re: Social Security Fix

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    Problem not solved. There is no way that the government would stop stealing from the fund. What's so bad about people taking care of their own retirement?
    At the first major catastrophe the retirement fund will be used for something besides retirement.
    Quote Originally Posted by Northern Light View Post
    The systems that ensure freedom and liberty are breaking down and fundamentalism is growing. Nobody is righteous anymore.


  2. #92
    Traditionalist
    phattonez's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Los Angeles, CA
    Last Seen
    12-05-17 @ 03:45 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    20,072

    Re: Social Security Fix

    Quote Originally Posted by Mickey Shane View Post
    At the first major catastrophe the retirement fund will be used for something besides retirement.
    And that will be the end of the savings? They won't have insurance to take care of the catastrophe? Please.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

  3. #93
    Disappointed Evolutionist
    Catawba's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Last Seen
    05-28-13 @ 08:15 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    27,254

    Re: Social Security Fix

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    Problem not solved. There is no way that the government would stop stealing from the fund.
    Sure there is, you lock those funds (legislatively) so they cannot be used for other purposes. The suggestion has already been made by a presidential candidate, but the country decided to vote for the guy they would rather have a beer with instead.

    What's so bad about people taking care of their own retirement?
    You mean as invest in the stock market??? I think we've recently seen that would be unwise. The simple matter is the SS system is extremely efficient and secure, properly maintained there is nothing in the private market that can beat it.
    Last edited by Catawba; 03-02-11 at 04:27 PM.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  4. #94
    Sleeper Agent
    iamitter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    NY, NY
    Last Seen
    12-02-17 @ 01:11 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Left
    Posts
    1,836

    Re: Social Security Fix

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Sure there is, you lock those funds (legislatively) so they cannot be used for other purposes. The suggestion has already been made by a presidential candidate, but the country decided to vote for the guy they would rather have a beer with instead.



    You mean as invest in the stock market??? I think we've recently seen that would be unwise. The simple matter is the SS system is extremely efficient and secure, properly maintained their is nothing in the private market that can beat it.
    There are other ways to invest besides stock market.

    In any case, it's very easy to beat SS, its max return is the return on government bonds, which is pitifully low.
    If people want that return themselves, they can invest in bonds by themselves.
    Give a man a fish, or he will destroy the only existing vial of antidote.

  5. #95
    Disappointed Evolutionist
    Catawba's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Last Seen
    05-28-13 @ 08:15 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    27,254

    Re: Social Security Fix

    Quote Originally Posted by iamitter View Post
    There are other ways to invest besides stock market.

    In any case, it's very easy to beat SS, its max return is the return on government bonds, which is pitifully low.
    If people want that return themselves, they can invest in bonds by themselves.
    People are free already to invest in additional retirement accounts. I see no reason to scrap one of the most efficient and secure methods for providing a safety net for everyone in their retirement, or should they become disabled. All the system needs is some tweaking and locking the funds so they can't be used to offset other government spending and we are good to go!

    In a private set up, what happens if people make bad investment decisions, or become disabled and can't work before they have enough returns to support them? Then they are added to the welfare roles. Afraid I just don't see the advantages to a private system.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  6. #96
    Traditionalist
    phattonez's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Los Angeles, CA
    Last Seen
    12-05-17 @ 03:45 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    20,072

    Re: Social Security Fix

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Sure there is, you lock those funds (legislatively) so they cannot be used for other purposes. The suggestion has already been made by a presidential candidate, but the country decided to vote for the guy they would rather have a beer with instead.
    Wouldn't change a thing.

    You mean as invest in the stock market??? I think we've recently seen that would be unwise. The simple matter is the SS system is extremely efficient and secure, properly maintained there is nothing in the private market that can beat it.
    Efficient and secure? In what manner? The interest they've gotten on those funds has been terrible, and then they still from it routinely! Besides, people don't have to invest. They could just save it.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

  7. #97
    Disappointed Evolutionist
    Catawba's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Last Seen
    05-28-13 @ 08:15 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    27,254

    Re: Social Security Fix

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    Efficient and secure? In what manner? The interest they've gotten on those funds has been terrible, and then they still from it routinely! Besides, people don't have to invest. They could just save it.
    Efficient, as in little waste in running the program. Secure as having not been lost in the market collapse. The interest at my bank has been terrible as well, and we lost a fair sum of money due to the stock market crash. Higher risk funds do earn more interest but there are risks. What if they spend it instead of saving it? If we have to turn around and support those that have made bad investment choices, what have we gained?
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  8. #98
    Sage
    Dittohead not!'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    The Golden State
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 12:26 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    41,547

    Re: Social Security Fix

    Here's a comparison for you:

    California State Teachers retirement. Teachers pay 8% into the fund, the employer matches that 8%, just like SS.

    Many years ago, the state government wanted to put the fund into the state general fund and spend the surplus, just like SS.

    Unlike SS, the (terrible, socialistic, evil, liberal) teachers union put a stop to the state's plot to raid the retirement fund.

    Unlike SS, the excess has been put into long term investments by a private agency regulated by the state.

    Unlike SS, STRS pays fairly well, and at an earlier age than SS, and is solvent at least through 2042.

    Therefore, I suggest we take a lesson from the state of California, and put SS funds into a separate trust fund, administered by a private entity with government regulation, then start paying back the IOUs.

    Maybe we can still undo the damage that was done by having allowed the government to steal the SS funds. Of course, we may have to raise that cap and perhaps the retirement age as well until the fund is actually paid back and becomes solvent once again.
    "Donald Trump is a phony, a fraud... [he's] playing the American public for suckers." Mitt Romney

  9. #99
    Sleeper Agent
    iamitter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    NY, NY
    Last Seen
    12-02-17 @ 01:11 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Left
    Posts
    1,836

    Re: Social Security Fix

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    People are free already to invest in additional retirement accounts. I see no reason to scrap one of the most efficient and secure methods for providing a safety net for everyone in their retirement, or should they become disabled. All the system needs is some tweaking and locking the funds so they can't be used to offset other government spending and we are good to go!

    In a private set up, what happens if people make bad investment decisions, or become disabled and can't work before they have enough returns to support them? Then they are added to the welfare roles. Afraid I just don't see the advantages to a private system.
    They can have precisely the same return rate the government has by investing in bonds, except with absolutely no administrative costs at all.
    Or, they can choose a riskier option. It's their choice.


    I donate most of the money I don't use or just reinvest every year. It hurts seeing basically a negative return rate on my "investment" in SS, when I could help the world a lot more if just given the freedom to do what I want with it.
    I don't want nor will I ever need this insurance. SS was never meant to be welfare and I don't want it to change into that. Taking even more of my money and dumping it basically down a bottomless pit is extremely inefficient.

    Did you check the return rate on ten year bonds from the US govt? When you adjust it for inflation in normal times, you basically get nothing on your investment.
    Give a man a fish, or he will destroy the only existing vial of antidote.

  10. #100
    Disappointed Evolutionist
    Catawba's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Last Seen
    05-28-13 @ 08:15 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    27,254

    Re: Social Security Fix

    Quote Originally Posted by iamitter View Post
    They can have precisely the same return rate the government has by investing in bonds, except with absolutely no administrative costs at all.
    Or, they can choose a riskier option. It's their choice.
    My concern is what if they make bad investment, get swindled, or simply spend the money. What happens then?


    I donate most of the money I don't use or just reinvest every year. It hurts seeing basically a negative return rate on my "investment" in SS, when I could help the world a lot more if just given the freedom to do what I want with it.
    I see where you are coming from and there is something to that, but ultimately I see it as a way to prevent having to throw old and disabled people out in the street.

    I don't want nor will I ever need this insurance. SS was never meant to be welfare and I don't want it to change into that. Taking even more of my money and dumping it basically down a bottomless pit is extremely inefficient.
    Its not welfare, its a fund we all pay into to assist in our retirement, or if we become disabled.

    Did you check the return rate on ten year bonds from the US govt? When you adjust it for inflation in normal times, you basically get nothing on your investment.
    As the economy improves, so will the rate of return. However, the rate of return is secondary to me to have a secure mechanism to help protect ALL of our old folks and the disabled.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

Page 10 of 51 FirstFirst ... 8910111220 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •