View Poll Results: Does defense justify torture?

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  • Yes

    37 48.68%
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    25 32.89%
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Thread: Does defense justify torture?

  1. #81
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    Re: Does defense justify torture?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    please go read what i posted on this and reply to that, because unfortunately this simplistic claim isn't fully accurate.

    I have seen torture work, and work well.
    Spill right and I might chop my finger off.

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    Re: Does defense justify torture?

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    If the torture is grey-area and not finger chopping etc, then it becomes distasteful?
    I'm not an expert on the question what exactly is torture and what is not. But as far as I know, torture is pretty clearly defined in international law and agreements. Interrogation methods that are not considered torture, but just a little harsh, are certainly in order.
    "Not learning from mistakes is worse than committing mistakes. When you don't allow yourself to make mistakes, it is hard to be tolerant of others and it does not allow even God to be merciful."

  3. #83
    Meh...
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    Re: Does defense justify torture?

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    Amnesty International wants Bush prosecuted for his roll in waterboarding. One of the defenses of Bush I have come across is that torture is when used to defend innocent lives. I will admit, it is an interesting question for me to explore.

    What is your opinion?
    My opinion is that this is BS. No one in the French government has ever had to answer for the hundreds of thousands of Algerians publicly tortured as a matter of policy. And now that four or five people have been waterboarded post 9-11, Amnesty International wishes to make a declaration of self righteous accusation? **** 'em.

    We belong to a nation that dropped two atomic bombs on two Japanese civilian cities in the name of national security. We are a nation that took part in bombing civilian cities across Europe in the name of all of Western Europe's security. But today, we choose to pretend for the international audience that we should be dragged through the gutter along with there Nazis and there immoral terrorists for the "torture" of an extreme few for own national security?

    Do people actually believe that spies during the Cold War were treated to 4 Star Hotels and a spa program? When all of western Europe was being protected did they search so deeply to find imperfect methods to criticize? What we do for our cecurity (and others) is a matter for the shadows. Bush's only mistake was publicly condoning it for the exceptions, which gave the hypocritical world their stage. All it takes is one waterboarding from America to allow them their preachings on how we are "all the same now."

    Maybe we should just drop a nuclear bomb or two. That generation was called "great." Again...**** 'em and their sense of self-righteous tone.
    Last edited by MSgt; 11-11-10 at 06:39 PM.

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  4. #84
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    Re: Does defense justify torture?

    Quote Originally Posted by MSgt View Post
    We belong to a nation that dropped two atomic bombs on two Japanese civilian cities in the name of national security. We are a nation that took part in bombing civilian cities across Europe in the name of all of Western Europe's security.
    Someone police this man...

  5. #85
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    Re: Does defense justify torture?

    [QUOTE=SE102;1059096139]Given common sense, you could say given the number of 'mickey mouse' detainees who have no information, secret torture camps, where they are likely training eastern europeans to do the same (again who cares, its just an experimental torture network in eastern europe ), I'd say 90% of the torture program is a crock of fascist oppressive right wing human ****.[/quote

    that's funny, because i would say not only do you have no clue about that, but you are unlikely to be able to have a clue about that

    i'd say 90% of people are all secretly in love with Tina Turner, but refuse to admit to it. go ahead, ask people; do they deny it? AHA!!!!


  6. #86
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    Re: Does defense justify torture?

    Quote Originally Posted by SE102 View Post
    according to what international agreement does it?

    The Universal Declaration of Human Rights

    Much of that is violated by prison. In the US, life and the right to vote are violated in prison; I'm against both of those punishments.
    Last edited by ecofarm; 11-11-10 at 06:48 PM.

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    Re: Does defense justify torture?

    Quote Originally Posted by SE102 View Post
    Someone police this man...
    For whatever you mean, you are welcome to.

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    Re: Does defense justify torture?

    Quote Originally Posted by MSgt View Post
    My opinion is that this is BS. No one in the French government has ever had to answer for the hundreds of thousands of Algerians publicly tortured as a matter of policy. And now that four or five people have been waterboarded post 9-11, Amnesty International wishes to make a declaration of self righteous accusation? **** 'em.
    4 or 5 people waterboarded?

    Within days of the 9/11 attacks, the Bush administration began preparing to authorize a set of practices -- meticulously documented in Jane Mayer's excellent The Dark Side -- that are normally associated with brutal military dictatorships. These measures included the systematic use of torture, the suspension of habeas corpus, secret renditions of suspected terrorists, targeted assassinations, and indefinite detention without trial at Guantánamo and other overseas facilities. These practices were endorsed and approved by John Yoo, a mid-level official in the Bush Justice Department's Office of Legal Counsel, and Bush admits in his memoir that he personally approved the waterboarding of captured terrorist suspects. The sordid debacle at Abu Ghraib prison was hardly an isolated incident conducted by poorly supervised subordinates; it was in fact entirely consistent with Bush's post-9/11 approach to human rights and civil liberties. And as Obama's inability to shut down Guatánamo suggests, it may take decades to dismantle these practices and restore America's tarnished international image.
    Delusion Points - By Stephen M. Walt | Foreign Policy

  9. #89
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    Re: Does defense justify torture?

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    Amnesty International wants Bush prosecuted for his roll in waterboarding. One of the defenses of Bush I have come across is that torture is when used to defend innocent lives. I will admit, it is an interesting question for me to explore. What is your opinion?
    There is no defense for torture.

    But let us define torture -- not as psychologically uncomfortable....not as, "Holy crap, I think I'm going to die," but define it once and for all with words that accurately describe what torture really is.

    I have a feeling its definition is as slippery as that of pornography. "I know it when I see it." That definition leaves plenty of room for subjectivity.
    The devil whispered in my ear, "You cannot withstand the storm." I whispered back, "I am ​the storm."

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    Re: Does defense justify torture?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    that's funny, because i would say not only do you have no clue about that, but you are unlikely to be able to have a clue about that
    Funny how it is evident that I already am 'clued', so tell me what you know and I'll cut my finger off.

    Cmon.

    Chiken

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