View Poll Results: Does defense justify torture?

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Thread: Does defense justify torture?

  1. #71
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    Re: Does defense justify torture?

    In that hypothetical example, chasing after indictments for the underlings who were given specific authority for that specific procedure would certainly be in poor taste.

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    Re: Does defense justify torture?

    They could. They have had well-known disputes with other departments of the executive branch and intelligence agencies.
    Michael J Petrilli-"Is School Choice Enough?"-A response to the recent timidity of American conservatives toward education reform. https://nationalaffairs.com/publicat...-choice-enough

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    Re: Does defense justify torture?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    If torture were proven to be an effective means of getting information, maybe, but since in most instances, the individual being tortured will tell you anything to make you stop, whether it's true or not, torture really isn't that useful to begin with.
    the problem with this counterclaim is that you aren't going to interrogate someone who is high enough up the food chain to justify any kind of enhanced interrogation (to say nothing of torture) without having very specific information requirements built upon known unknowns. the question will never be something along the lines of "are you a bad guy", but more along the lines of "what is the phone number that you call to get in touch with Abu Saldi?" the answers to those information requirements are generally extremely verifiable (ie: we call the number and see who picks up: if it's a grandmother in Topeka, we can go back and discuss the implications of lying to the interrogator with the interrogated). Furthermore, anyone who has ever conducted interrogations professionally will tell you that any period of questioning is going to contain control questions, which will instantly indicate if the subject is falsifying his information. furthermore, the kinds of people that we have conducting high-level detainee questioning are extremely highly trained and proficient in the 16 interrogation approaches as well deception detection. trying to lie to one of these guys is like trying to lie to a Jedi Knight, your tells are instantly available to them. I played poker with a guy in this job field. once.
    Last edited by cpwill; 11-11-10 at 06:15 PM.

  4. #74
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    Re: Does defense justify torture?

    Quote Originally Posted by SE102 View Post
    Look are the CIA going to release a memo in public eyes that says torture is not working.
    If there is evidence of torture and no evidence of success, I don't see how they have a choice.

    About how much failed torture would you say the US is guilty of?

  5. #75
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    Re: Does defense justify torture?

    Torture doesn't make people tell the truth, it make people say whatever the torturer wants them to say. Period.


  6. #76
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    Re: Does defense justify torture?

    Quote Originally Posted by pbrauer View Post
    Torture doesn't make people tell the truth, it make people say whatever the torturer wants them to say. Period.
    please go read what i posted on this and reply to that, because unfortunately this simplistic claim isn't fully accurate.

    I have seen torture work, and work well.

  7. #77
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    Re: Does defense justify torture?

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    In that hypothetical example, chasing after indictments for the underlings who were given specific authority for that specific procedure would certainly be in poor taste.
    Naturally, most of the responsibility lies on the person who was in charge and giving the orders. But I don't think any "underling" should be required to follow orders that result in the violation basic human right standards, against his conscience. "I just followed orders" has been an excuse for horrible crimes way too often.

    For example, I would consider it intolerable if a police officer could be fired or even face charges, just because he denied the order to torture a suspect.
    Last edited by German guy; 11-11-10 at 06:21 PM.
    "Not learning from mistakes is worse than committing mistakes. When you don't allow yourself to make mistakes, it is hard to be tolerant of others and it does not allow even God to be merciful."

  8. #78
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    Re: Does defense justify torture?

    If the torture is grey-area and not finger chopping etc, then it becomes distasteful?

    Limiting the hypothetical to police is not acceptable. Police should not have such authority, given the extreme rarity of cases. It would be federal intel.
    Last edited by ecofarm; 11-11-10 at 06:26 PM.

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    Re: Does defense justify torture?

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    If there is evidence of torture and no evidence of success, I don't see how they have a choice.

    About how much failed torture would you say the US is guilty of?
    Well people are writing suicide notes in blood on their cell walls, force fed anti-depressants so they wont do it blah blah blah, cracking their skulls open bleeding trying to end their lives because they're treated to such an inhumane degree etc. (but no concern on anyones part mind you).

    Given common sense, you could say given the number of 'mickey mouse' detainees who have no information, secret torture camps, where they are likely training eastern europeans to do the same (again who cares, its just an experimental torture network in eastern europe ), I'd say 90% of the torture program is a crock of fascist oppressive right wing human ****.

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    Basic civil (and perhaps even human) rights end in the US and every nation on earth all the time. It's called prison. Prison violates human rights. Having knowledge to stop the murder of 1000s should also allow the violation of human rights.
    No it doesnt, according to what international agreement does it?

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    Re: Does defense justify torture?

    Quote Originally Posted by pbrauer View Post
    Torture doesn't make people tell the truth, it make people say whatever the torturer wants them to say. Period.
    Hush , you.

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