View Poll Results: Does defense justify torture?

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Thread: Does defense justify torture?

  1. #31
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    Re: Does defense justify torture?

    Well, I will inject a bit of BS.

    You are a true bastard. I have a large exam to study for that covers Pre-history till now. I am being tested, literally on "everything". But instead of conquering the history of the world, I'm talking to you about this!
    Michael J Petrilli-"Is School Choice Enough?"-A response to the recent timidity of American conservatives toward education reform. https://nationalaffairs.com/publicat...-choice-enough

  2. #32
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    Re: Does defense justify torture?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Well, I will inject a bit of BS.

    You are a true bastard. I have a large exam to study for that covers Pre-history till now. I am being tested, literally on "everything". But instead of conquering the history of the world, I'm talking to you about this!
    **** you and go away!

  3. #33
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    Re: Does defense justify torture?

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    Good guys protect the innocent at all costs. Good guys wound't put lives at risk because they don't feel like doing something uncomfortable. I would say the bad guys care more about formalities and protecting the rights of murderous criminals than they do about thwarting terrorism and saving innocent lives.
    The ol' give up freedom for safety argument eh? Not all that convincing.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

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  4. #34
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    Re: Does defense justify torture?

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    Amnesty International wants Bush prosecuted for his roll in waterboarding. One of the defenses of Bush I have come across is that torture is when used to defend innocent lives. I will admit, it is an interesting question for me to explore.

    What is your opinion?
    It's most likely situational. In general, there should be no policy for it. We shouldn't employ torture in any ol' case we want. Particularly when we aren't being careful over who we jail in the first place. There are many many many bad things which come as a result of liberal use of torture. Additionally, the information gathered from torture is very suspect. Many people under extreme duress will say anything they need to in order to remove themselves from the environment.

    Given the uncertainties involved, I would say that rarely would torture ever be a productive and justified method of information extraction.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  5. #35
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    Re: Does defense justify torture?

    I am kind of split on this. I think we should always take the high road even with enemy's. We should not reduce ourselves to their level, it makes us no better than them.

    On the other hand water boarding does no physical damage because it works on a panic reflex. So again I just don't know. Better minds than mine have pondered it and the jury is still out.

    Edit: I take that back. After further reading it can cause massive damage and death. I am sorry but that is torture.
    Last edited by Black Dog; 11-11-10 at 04:13 PM.
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  6. #36
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    Re: Does defense justify torture?

    Has torture ever been used effectively as a policy to extract information to any effective purpose? In this century people have been tortured for political repression as a rule, it was rarely if ever effective and the more lucrative results of these regimes was planting agents in networks of interest. Nazis and Soviets would torture people for months at a time (with no limits on their techniques), receive no pertinent info and ship their victims off to camps or to execution. What chance is there that a muslim who believes he does the work of God himself is going to give in to a nation occupying his territory? As far as I'm concerned the support for the policy of torture at this point is to prevent a loss of political face.

  7. #37
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    Re: Does defense justify torture?

    For defense to justify torture, it would have to be proven that torture improves defense. All information available to me suggests that it does not, and that it wastes our time and effort with false leads.

    Success is the only justification, and torture does not succeed.


  8. #38
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    Re: Does defense justify torture?

    Quote Originally Posted by SE102 View Post
    Has torture ever been used effectively as a policy to extract information to any effective purpose?
    Yes.

    We all know it is useless for the purpose of producing a confession; however, it is highly effective at getting information from someone whom we know has it. If the wrong information is given, it is checked and the interrogation continues. For example, the classic "someone has the code to save millions"... of course we torture and chances are we get the answer (perhaps with additional rather inhumane methods). Ask the mob, or the three people that the US waterboarded. "Torturing" for info you know someone has pays. Of course, we should only do it in the most extreme cases, when the recipient has been convicted beyond all reasonable doubt and is known to have such info as to directly save lives. The three times the US waterboarded (under those circumstances)... we got info that saved thousands of innocent lives.

    Waterboard 3 internationally-well-known terrorists or let thousands of innocents die?

    I don't think there is a decision to make there.
    Last edited by ecofarm; 11-11-10 at 04:25 PM.

  9. #39
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    Re: Does defense justify torture?

    Do you have good examples?

  10. #40
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    Re: Does defense justify torture?

    The mob and the three terrorists that the US waterboarded (if we are to consider that torture), as I mentioned above (perhaps in edit).

    Are you going to deny that the mob gets great info from torture (given the circumstances I outlined above)? Are you going to deny that great info was gained from the three waterboardings?

    Deny both if you want, but I think that's foolish (and the latter a matter of public record).

    People put torture in the too narrow context of "torture for confession" and they need to consider that torture to discover verifiable information (eg. bomb location, co-conspirators or the code to the bomb) works.
    Last edited by ecofarm; 11-11-10 at 04:36 PM.

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