View Poll Results: Does defense justify torture?

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  • Yes

    37 48.68%
  • No

    25 32.89%
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Thread: Does defense justify torture?

  1. #381
    Banned Goobieman's Avatar
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    Re: Does defense justify torture?

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    I've had enough of your dancing and shuffling around for one month Goob...
    That's OK - I knew you couldn't do it.

  2. #382
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    Re: Does defense justify torture?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    Reallly...
    OK - lay out the moral/ethical argument that leads to the conclusion that to not torture someone and allowing a million innocent people to die is a better moral/ethical choice than to torture that someone and save those million people.
    I'm VERY much waiting for your response.
    MO, it doesn't have to be a large number, just one. Waterboarding isn't torture if you compare it to what say the Japanese did to us during WWII.
    "It's not that I'm afraid to die, I just don't want to be there when it happens." Woody Allen.

  3. #383
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    Re: Does defense justify torture?

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    suffice it to say, you cannot teach values and ethics to people who thing that torture is ever an option. Sorry.
    So the 70% of people who think that torture IS an option are bereft of values and ethics? Interesting.
    People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

  4. #384
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    Re: Does defense justify torture?

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    So the 70% of people who think that torture IS an option are bereft of values and ethics? Interesting.
    Thank you for that link,, Right. It would be interesting to know what these respondents think is torture. For instance, waterboarding. I think it's just fine. But pulling out fingernails, cutting off body parts....well, that's another kettle of fish. I could not support that.
    The devil whispered in my ear, "You cannot withstand the storm." I whispered back, "I am ​the storm."

  5. #385
    Banned Goobieman's Avatar
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    Re: Does defense justify torture?

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    Thank you for that link,, Right. It would be interesting to know what these respondents think is torture. For instance, waterboarding. I think it's just fine. But pulling out fingernails, cutting off body parts....well, that's another kettle of fish. I could not support that.
    Even if doing so would stop a nuclear detonation in NYC?

  6. #386
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    Re: Does defense justify torture?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    Even if doing so would stop a nuclear detonation in NYC?
    That's a loaded question, Goobie. And that is exactly the reason we have people who do the jobs that we would/could never do. If it were me having to do the deed, I couldn't do it. There are noble reasons to die.

    Edit: I also have to say that one could never know the answer to that question until put in the position.
    Last edited by MaggieD; 11-14-10 at 11:01 AM.
    The devil whispered in my ear, "You cannot withstand the storm." I whispered back, "I am ​the storm."

  7. #387
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    Re: Does defense justify torture?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    Even if doing so would stop a nuclear detonation in NYC?
    I'm going to hop in and say that I would be a-okay with any and all of the above methods.
    People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

  8. #388
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    Re: Does defense justify torture?

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    That's a loaded question, Goobie.
    I really don't think so, especially in that it is nowhere near outside the realm of possibility,

    There are noble reasons to die.
    Assume you are President, and decide to let the nuke go off rather than torture a handfull of terrorists.
    How do you explain your decision to the American people, and how long do you think you have before you're shot?

    Edit: I also have to say that one could never know the answer to that question until put in the position.
    I do. In less than a heartbeat.

  9. #389
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    Re: Does defense justify torture?

    yup. if a terrorist is willing to utilize nuclear weaponry against a noncombatant city, then they give up their rights to humane treatment. the laws of war are there to make war more humane; the assumption is that both belligerents will obey them. if one tosses them away in order to murder more; he cannot claim their protection when captured.

  10. #390
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    Re: Does defense justify torture?

    Quote Originally Posted by Viktyr Korimir View Post
    Extreme situations are why we have policy in the first place.
    Disagreed. Policy is based on assumptions about conditions; when those assumptions are no longer valid, the policy does not apply.

    For example: There is a "Rules Is Rules" email floating around with a series of photos of a train which developed a hot box (burned out bearing in one of the wheels). Policy is to stop the train immediately, and railroad HQ insisted that the policy be followed in spite of the crew's recommendation to move forward because the train was sitting on top of a wooden trestle. Policy was followed, the trestle caught fire; trestle, train and cargo were all lost.
    "We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress & the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution, but overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution."
    - Abraham Lincoln

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