View Poll Results: Does defense justify torture?

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    37 48.68%
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Thread: Does defense justify torture?

  1. #291
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    Re: Does defense justify torture?

    Quote Originally Posted by TacticalEvilDan View Post
    I do not want any sanctioned authority torturing others in my name any more than I want any sanctioned authority executing prisoners in my name.
    Well, good news..... They don't have the aurthority. So what's the gripe?

    Quote Originally Posted by TacticalEvilDan View Post
    I'd like to see if you have the balls to be explicit about what you mean, or if you're a coward who will hide behind innuendo.

    Let's find out, shall we?
    Explicit? What I stated was pretty obvious, but I'll dumb it down. What I mean is that you are a citizen who needs protected. You do not need to know all the details. Andf the more details you know the harder it is to fight an enemy without morals and without Western laws of war. Only a nation without enemies has the luxury to remain clean.

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  2. #292
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    Re: Does defense justify torture?

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    Objecting to torture (of three people since 9/11) on the basis of anti-authority is about as Don Quixote as it gets.
    It's not just based on a simple hatred of authority, which you'd know if you'd actually read anything I've posted in this thread.
    I'm already gearing up for Finger Vote 2014.

    Just for reference, means my post was a giant steaming pile of sarcasm.

  3. #293
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    Re: Does defense justify torture?

    Quote Originally Posted by TacticalEvilDan View Post
    I don't want to be the person with that authority, and I don't want any person in that position to have that authority.
    It's not a question of "authority"; it's a question of being in a position where you have to make a choice.

    You say you'd let your daughter be hacked to death rather than beat the guy who can tell you where she is. That has nothing to with authority, but everything to do with choice, and like I said, I simply don't believe you.
    “Offing those rich pigs with their own forks and knives, and then eating a meal in the same room, far out! The Weathermen dig Charles Manson.”-- Bernadine Dohrn

  4. #294
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    Re: Does defense justify torture?

    Quote Originally Posted by MSgt View Post
    Well, good news..... They don't have the aurthority. So what's the gripe?
    No gripe, I'm responding to the subject of this thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by MSgt View Post
    Explicit? What I stated was pretty obvious, but I'll dumb it down. What I mean is that you are a citizen who needs protected. You do not need to know all the details. Andf the more details you know the harder it is to fight an enemy without morals and without Western laws of war. Only a nation without enemies has the luxury to remain clean.
    Tell you what.

    When you can respond to someone with whom you disagree without implying that they're stupid or weak, come back and see me.

    If you're going to insult me, have the testicular fortitude to come right out and do it and take the points for it.
    I'm already gearing up for Finger Vote 2014.

    Just for reference, means my post was a giant steaming pile of sarcasm.

  5. #295
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    Re: Does defense justify torture?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    You say you'd let your daughter be hacked to death rather than beat the guy who can tell you where she is. That has nothing to with authority, but everything to do with choice, and like I said, I simply don't believe you.
    I'd rather let both of my kids be hacked to death rather than let the government have the power to torture the guy who can tell where they are.

    I don't give a **** if you believe me. Believe whatever you want.
    I'm already gearing up for Finger Vote 2014.

    Just for reference, means my post was a giant steaming pile of sarcasm.

  6. #296
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    Re: Does defense justify torture?

    Quote Originally Posted by TacticalEvilDan View Post
    There is a significant difference between just war and torture.
    Of course there's a difference, but that's not the point. Many people view the dropping of atomic bombs on civilian cities as unjust and criminal. Surely you aren't suggesting that waterboarding three religious terrorists is worse than slaughtering tens of thousands of Japanese civilians. Yet, you write that we lose our humanity from the latter? Make sense of this.

    Quote Originally Posted by TacticalEvilDan View Post
    If someone invades your country, or that of an ally, you have a duty to repel that invasion. If you kill people in the process, that's what happens. It's no different than if someone breaks into my house or my neighbor's house.
    But how much repelling did two Japanese civilian cities need?

    Quote Originally Posted by TacticalEvilDan View Post


    The power to torture individuals is ripe and ready for abuse, and I do not want my leaders to have it.
    You state it is "ripe and ready," despite it being officially illegal. Again, they have the same "power" they've always had. Want it or not, it is what it is.

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  7. #297
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    Re: Does defense justify torture?

    Quote Originally Posted by TacticalEvilDan View Post
    I'd rather let both of my kids be hacked to death rather than let the government have the power to torture the guy who can tell where they are.

    I don't give a **** if you believe me. Believe whatever you want.
    No, you're changing the subject. This is about the choice that you personally would make, which was your claim. That's what I've been addressing all along.

    If you need to change the subject to avoid taking it head on, then I think it makes my point. Not so morally absolute after all.
    “Offing those rich pigs with their own forks and knives, and then eating a meal in the same room, far out! The Weathermen dig Charles Manson.”-- Bernadine Dohrn

  8. #298
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    Re: Does defense justify torture?

    Quote Originally Posted by TacticalEvilDan View Post
    I already did. You simply refuse to accept it, as is your right.
    No, you stated an opinion. You didnt present anything that leads to a sound conclusion.

    You also skipped this AGAIN:
    And yet you agree that when faced with two choices that are wrong, you take the one that causes the least harm.
    Reconcile these positions.

  9. #299
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    Re: Does defense justify torture?

    Quote Originally Posted by MSgt View Post
    Of course there's a difference, but that's not the point. Many people view the dropping of atomic bombs on civilian cities as unjust and criminal. Surely you aren't suggesting that waterboarding three religious terrorists is worse than slaughtering tens of thousands of Japanese civilians. Yet, you write that we lose our humanity from the latter? Make sense of this.
    I actually didn't say any such thing, liar.

    I think the fact that the United States of America dropped atomic bombs on civilian population centers is a black mark on our "moral authority" that will never, ever go away.

    At any rate, I don't care if the people we torture are terrorists or Girl Scouts, it's evil no matter who you do it to.

    Quote Originally Posted by MSgt View Post
    You state it is "ripe and ready," despite it being officially illegal. Again, they have the same "power" they've always had. Want it or not, it is what it is.
    I never said it's legal. Will you stop putting words in my mouth, please?

    At any rate, I want my government to stop torturing people, and I want those who tortured to be punished alongside those who ordered or authorized or ignored the torture.
    I'm already gearing up for Finger Vote 2014.

    Just for reference, means my post was a giant steaming pile of sarcasm.

  10. #300
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    Re: Does defense justify torture?

    Quote Originally Posted by TacticalEvilDan View Post
    Tell you what.

    When you can respond to someone with whom you disagree without implying that they're stupid or weak, come back and see me.

    If you're going to insult me, have the testicular fortitude to come right out and do it and take the points for it.
    I'm not sure how you were insulted. But surely you can have a discussion without tattle telling over your sensibilities. You simply should not know what all goes on above your head. You are allowed your self-righteous tones, but government and military cannot have this classroom luxury. No government does. The problem comes when the average citizen gets it in his head that the imperfections of his government equals the depravities of Nazi Germany. You wrote of differences. Here's one too.

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    USMC

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