View Poll Results: Does defense justify torture?

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  • Yes

    37 48.68%
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    25 32.89%
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Thread: Does defense justify torture?

  1. #281
    Shankmasta Killa
    TacticalEvilDan's Avatar
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    Re: Does defense justify torture?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    Oh.... "taking a piece of their humanity with you" is a significacntly better choice then making the choice to simply let them die.
    I vehemently disagree, in the strongest terms possible.

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    We sleep soundly in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm.
    (Thanks, MSgt)
    There's a significant difference between war and torture.
    I'm already gearing up for Finger Vote 2014.

    Just for reference, means my post was a giant steaming pile of sarcasm.

  2. #282
    Ideologically Impure
    Simon W. Moon's Avatar
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    Re: Does defense justify torture?

    Quote Originally Posted by Diogenes View Post
    It works. Back in the eighties, a KGB agent was taken by a clan of gangsters in Lebanon. The next morning, the clan leader found a box in front of his door. Opening the box, he recognized the ear of a favorite nephew. The KGB agent was released before noon.
    So let's make it policy and do it all the time. Let's save some lives people.
    I may be wrong.

  3. #283
    Meh...
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    Re: Does defense justify torture?

    Quote Originally Posted by TacticalEvilDan View Post
    Because when you purchase the lives of a million humans with behavior which at the very bottom of the depths of inhumanity, you take a piece of their humanity with you.
    This is such philosophical pc garbage and it smacks the American history right in the face. I suppose dropping two atomic bombs on civilian cities turned us into raving killers and oppressors too. We send our people off to war to murder and to slaughter. They return not damaged and beyond redemption. They don't return to a civilization that can't be human anymore. They simply pick up where they left off and march forward. They have children and they complete their lives without losing their "humanity." But three waterboarding is supposed to have destroyed "a piece of our humanity" and sentenced us to hell? Give uys a break. Your moral high ground is for the classroom.

    MSgt
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  4. #284
    Shankmasta Killa
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    Re: Does defense justify torture?

    Quote Originally Posted by MSgt View Post
    Well, the way things work in this country is that you may believe anything you like, but proof and evidence makes the case. Isn't it annoying how we can demand that people provide proof before condemning each other but inist that we need nothing but rumer to assume the evils of our Nazi like nation?
    Last I checked, I was opining in a thread about whether something is right or wrong. What exactly do you expect me to prove?

    Quote Originally Posted by MSgt View Post
    It's asinine to drag your country through the global mud just to cling to assumptions, theories, and maybes.
    I did no such thing. If you're commenting on the actions of others when responding to me, don't. I'm not talking about anything other than my opinion on torture.

    Quote Originally Posted by MSgt View Post
    Your moral superiority and self-righteous stance doesn't belong in national defense. You can afford such things. Your leaders have greater responsibilities.
    I do not want any sanctioned authority torturing others in my name any more than I want any sanctioned authority executing prisoners in my name.

    My leaders fall flat on their faces time after time after time after time with their "greater responsibilities." My leaders consist of men and women who are prepared to do all sorts of tasteless, immoral things in order to attain power. My leaders, by and large, are walking bags of toe jam. They are not fit to shine my shoes.

    I do not want that kind of person to have the authority to decide whether or not someone is tortured or executed.

    Quote Originally Posted by MSgt View Post
    My only problem with waterboarding is that people like you know about it.
    I'd like to see if you have the balls to be explicit about what you mean, or if you're a coward who will hide behind innuendo.

    Let's find out, shall we?
    I'm already gearing up for Finger Vote 2014.

    Just for reference, means my post was a giant steaming pile of sarcasm.

  5. #285
    Banned Goobieman's Avatar
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    Re: Does defense justify torture?

    Quote Originally Posted by TacticalEvilDan View Post
    .
    You skipped this:
    And yet you agree that when faced with two choices that are wrong, you take the one that causes the least harm.
    Reconcile these positions.

    I vehemently disagree, in the strongest terms possible
    Really.
    Make the argument that it is better to let 1 million die than to let those 1 million survuve with blood on their hands.

    There's a significant difference between war and torture.
    Not in terms of doing terrible things so that the people in your side might live.
    Last edited by Goobieman; 11-13-10 at 02:23 PM.

  6. #286
    Meh...
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    Re: Does defense justify torture?

    Quote Originally Posted by TacticalEvilDan View Post
    It is not, to me, morally suspect. It's ****ing evil.

    So yeah, I'd make that choice every single time.
    No...you'd make this choice in theory. In practical application you would be as human as the rest of us. If your family (or citizens) ever had to relie upon you to be more than a preacher of ethics, you would then be in a position beyond your theory.

    But none of this matters. Torture is illegal and waterboarding was banned publicly by even President Bush. So what's the gripe anymore? Because three religious terrorists and murderers were waterboarded? Move on.
    Last edited by MSgt; 11-13-10 at 02:26 PM.

    MSgt
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  7. #287
    Shankmasta Killa
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    Re: Does defense justify torture?

    Quote Originally Posted by MSgt View Post
    This is such philosophical pc garbage and it smacks the American history right in the face. I suppose dropping two atomic bombs on civilian cities turned us into raving killers and oppressors too. We send our people off to war to murder and to slaughter. They return not damaged and beyond redemption. They don't return to a civilization that can't be human anymore. They simply pick up where they left off and march forward. They have children and they complete their lives without losing their "humanity." But three waterboarding is supposed to have destroyed "a piece of our humanity" and sentenced us to hell? Give uys a break. Your moral high ground is for the classroom.
    There is a significant difference between just war and torture. The two aren't anywhere near being the same thing.

    If someone invades your country, or that of an ally, you have a duty to repel that invasion. If you kill people in the process, that's what happens. It's no different than if someone breaks into my house or my neighbor's house.

    The power to torture individuals is ripe and ready for abuse, and I do not want my leaders to have it.
    I'm already gearing up for Finger Vote 2014.

    Just for reference, means my post was a giant steaming pile of sarcasm.

  8. #288
    Shankmasta Killa
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    Re: Does defense justify torture?

    Quote Originally Posted by MSgt View Post
    No...you'd make this choice in theory. In practical application you would be as human as the rest of us. If your family (or citizens) ever had to relie upon you to be more than a preacher of ethics, you would then be in a position beyond your theory.
    I don't want to be the person with that authority, and I don't want any person in that position to have that authority.
    I'm already gearing up for Finger Vote 2014.

    Just for reference, means my post was a giant steaming pile of sarcasm.

  9. #289
    Shankmasta Killa
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    Re: Does defense justify torture?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    Make the argument that it is better to let 1 million die than to let those 1 million survuve with blood on their hands.
    I already did. You simply refuse to accept it, as is your right.
    I'm already gearing up for Finger Vote 2014.

    Just for reference, means my post was a giant steaming pile of sarcasm.

  10. #290
    global liberation

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    Re: Does defense justify torture?

    Quote Originally Posted by TacticalEvilDan View Post
    I don't want to be the person with that authority, and I don't want any person in that position to have that authority.
    Objecting to torture (of three people since 9/11) on the basis of anti-authority is about as Don Quixote as it gets.
    Last edited by ecofarm; 11-13-10 at 02:30 PM.

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