View Poll Results: Does defense justify torture?

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  • Yes

    37 48.68%
  • No

    25 32.89%
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    6 7.89%
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Thread: Does defense justify torture?

  1. #271
    Banned Goobieman's Avatar
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    Re: Does defense justify torture?

    Quote Originally Posted by TacticalEvilDan View Post
    I agree.
    You do?
    So, why do you oppose tortuing a person (or a few people) to save, say, a million?

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  2. #272
    Filmmaker Lawyer Patriot
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    Re: Does defense justify torture?

    Quote Originally Posted by TacticalEvilDan View Post
    I do not, for a picosecond, believe that these are the only individuals our government has tortured, and that's not even getting into the people we've handed over to be tortured by someone else.

    Nevertheless, a numerical argument is asinine.

    One person tortured is one too many.
    Such over-the-top absolutism is asinine. You're saying you'd choose death -- or the death of a loved one -- over making a morally suspect choice in every single instance.

    Sorry; no one's that rigid. No one.
    “Offing those rich pigs with their own forks and knives, and then eating a meal in the same room, far out! The Weathermen dig Charles Manson.”-- Bernadine Dohrn

  3. #273
    Banned Goobieman's Avatar
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    Re: Does defense justify torture?

    Quote Originally Posted by Coronado View Post
    You:
    Reading is fundamental.
    You may now commence the usual dissembling and equivocating
    That's not a n example of mindlessness, as the conclusion was reached directly thru reason.

  4. #274
    Banned Goobieman's Avatar
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    Re: Does defense justify torture?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    So, now, we've got "you want the government to TORTURRRRE!!!!" obviously implying that the people they're aiming the comment at wouldn't mind any average Joe plucked from the street hanging from shackles with electrodes attached to their testicles, for no reason other than to get mundane information or even just for sadistic pleasure. I'm absolutely certain NO ONE is arguing that, or anything remotely close to it.
    I think the issue is better served by asking "is there a circumstance where you'd accept torturing someone for the sake of national security?"
    One this is established, the question then becomes "under what circumstances?"
    No rational person supports torture for the fun of it; no rational person can oppose it if it will save millions of lives.

  5. #275
    Banned Goobieman's Avatar
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    Re: Does defense justify torture?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    I don't know what the point of your argument is but here is what the point of mine is. Letting a government torture opens the door for it to torture anyone.
    Hmm. Dont you, as a rule, oppose the slippery slope argument?
    Or is that just when it is convenient?

  6. #276
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    Re: Does defense justify torture?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    You do?
    So, why do you oppose tortuing a person (or a few people) to save, say, a million?
    Because when you purchase the lives of a million humans with behavior which at the very bottom of the depths of inhumanity, you take a piece of their humanity with you.
    I'm already gearing up for Finger Vote 2014.

    Just for reference, means my post was a giant steaming pile of sarcasm.

  7. #277
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    Re: Does defense justify torture?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    Such over-the-top absolutism is asinine. You're saying you'd choose death -- or the death of a loved one -- over making a morally suspect choice in every single instance.
    It is not, to me, morally suspect. It's ****ing evil.

    So yeah, I'd make that choice every single time.
    I'm already gearing up for Finger Vote 2014.

    Just for reference, means my post was a giant steaming pile of sarcasm.

  8. #278
    Banned Goobieman's Avatar
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    Re: Does defense justify torture?

    Quote Originally Posted by TacticalEvilDan View Post
    Because when you purchase the lives of a million humans with behavior which at the very bottom of the depths of inhumanity, you take a piece of their humanity with you.
    And yet you agree that when faced with two choices that are wrong, you take the one that causes the least harm.
    Reconcile these positions.

    Oh.... "taking a piece of their humanity with you" is a significacntly better choice then making the choice to simply let them die.

    We sleep soundly in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm.
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    Last edited by Goobieman; 11-13-10 at 02:06 PM.

  9. #279
    Meh...
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    Re: Does defense justify torture?

    Quote Originally Posted by TacticalEvilDan View Post
    I do not, for a picosecond, believe that these are the only individuals our government has tortured, and that's not even getting into the people we've handed over to be tortured by someone else.

    Nevertheless, a numerical argument is asinine.

    One person tortured is one too many.
    Well, the way things work in this country is that you may believe anything you like, but proof and evidence makes the case. Isn't it annoying how we can demand that people provide proof before condemning each other but inist that we need nothing but rumer to assume the evils of our Nazi like nation?

    It's asinine to drag your country through the global mud just to cling to assumptions, theories, and maybes. But let's be real. Two World Wars and a Cold War wasn't won because we had perfect manners. But we do have the moral high ground to insist on rules and regulations during our interrogations. Your moral superiority and self-righteous stance doesn't belong in national defense. You can afford such things. Your leaders have greater responsibilities. We have always handed prisoners over to to thers for interrogations. Even our military has handed the captured over for information (Belgians were useful in Somalia).

    My only problem with waterboarding is that people like you know about it.
    Last edited by MSgt; 11-13-10 at 02:20 PM.

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  10. #280
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    Re: Does defense justify torture?

    Quote Originally Posted by TacticalEvilDan View Post
    It is not, to me, morally suspect. It's ****ing evil.

    So yeah, I'd make that choice every single time.
    Right. OK.

    So, your daughter's about to be hacked to death; there's a guy in front of you whom you KNOW can tell you where she is, though he refuses, and you're not going to beat the guy to get the information from him? Or, more germane to the point, you're going to worry about water being poured over his face, with no chance of any physical harm coming to him?

    Instead, you're going to stand there and think "I'm a human, not an animal, and I guess my daughter will have to be hacked to death"?

    I'm pretty sure most independent observers would say "what kind of a father ARE you???"

    So no, I don't believe you. But if you would, then God help you.
    “Offing those rich pigs with their own forks and knives, and then eating a meal in the same room, far out! The Weathermen dig Charles Manson.”-- Bernadine Dohrn

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