View Poll Results: Does defense justify torture?

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  • Yes

    37 48.68%
  • No

    25 32.89%
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Thread: Does defense justify torture?

  1. #261
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    Re: Does defense justify torture?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    The problem with letting the government torture is that well, you're letting the government torture. For all the bitching I hear about the government being incompetent when dealing with welfare, healthcare, guns, crime, drugs etc. I can't help but wonder why somebody would allow a body they feel is incompetent deal with something like torture. People don't think the federal government should handle marriage but they are willing to entrust it with torture?
    Torture has always been illegal (or frowned upon) in the U.S. and it has been publicly banned for the sake of the PC 'tards by the last and present President. What is the point of the argument?

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  2. #262
    Liberal Fascist For Life!


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    Re: Does defense justify torture?

    Quote Originally Posted by MSgt View Post
    Torture has always been illegal (or frowned upon) in the U.S. and it has been publicly banned for the sake of the PC 'tards by the last and present President. What is the point of the argument?
    So you think it is being a "'tard" to have a sense of morals that does not allow for torture?
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

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    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

  3. #263
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    Re: Does defense justify torture?

    This thread was badly flawed from the outset, mostly because it began on such equivocal terms. So, some people here are talking about waterboarding. Some people here are talking about thumbscrews, branding irons, and strapping people to metal bedframes and running a current through it. Some people are talking about "defense" as in any minor situation, whereas others are referring to extreme situations of imminent danger to many people.

    And no one's making it clear what they mean.

    So, now, we've got "you want the government to TORTURRRRE!!!!" obviously implying that the people they're aiming the comment at wouldn't mind any average Joe plucked from the street hanging from shackles with electrodes attached to their testicles, for no reason other than to get mundane information or even just for sadistic pleasure. I'm absolutely certain NO ONE is arguing that, or anything remotely close to it.
    “Offing those rich pigs with their own forks and knives, and then eating a meal in the same room, far out! The Weathermen dig Charles Manson.”-- Bernadine Dohrn

  4. #264
    global liberation

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    Re: Does defense justify torture?

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Incognito View Post
    If an action is morally wrong, then it is morally wrong, period, it doesn't matter how much utility an immoral action has, it simply must not be done.
    Is it morally wrong to hold someone against their will? Is it morally wrong to shoot someone? Yes. However, each thing is called for under certain circumstances. It's not relative morality, it is balancing rights against each other. It is common-place. If you think that rights cannot be balanced against each other, you are being irrational. No right is absolute. Values are not changing with circumstance. The circumstance changes and the SAME values require various actions, all the time.

    I value the right to free assembly, but I realize we must compromise this right for those in prison.

    I value the right to life, but I will shoot someone to prevent a murder, rape, etc.

    I still value liberty and life... but these things are not and never will be absolute.

    Simple example: stealing is always wrong? What if you are in occupied France WWII and your family is starving... steal from the Nazis? Is that wrong? No.

    Stop with your absolutes. The only thing I can thnk of that is always wrong is rape. I would have a very hard time justifying that to stop a catastropic event, even if it could somehow avoid the catastrophy; however, torture - no problem.
    Last edited by ecofarm; 11-13-10 at 01:41 PM.

  5. #265
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    Re: Does defense justify torture?

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    So you think it is being a "'tard" to have a sense of morals that does not allow for torture?
    If torture was the fact, then morals would have something to do with this. I think it is being a 'tard to gripe as if torture is our national policy. It caters to the exaggerations of our hypocritical critics while feeding a political party's game. The same political party that has nothing to say about GITMO anymore or a fabricated sense of harshness.

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  6. #266
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    Re: Does defense justify torture?

    Quote Originally Posted by MSgt View Post
    Torture has always been illegal (or frowned upon) in the U.S. and it has been publicly banned for the sake of the PC 'tards by the last and present President. What is the point of the argument?
    I don't know what the point of your argument is but here is what the point of mine is. Letting a government torture opens the door for it to torture anyone. It's accepting that the government has power to physically assault a person if it feels justified enough to. See the use of the word 'feels'? Yeah. That's not a power I'm willing to let the government have.
    Last edited by Hatuey; 11-13-10 at 01:45 PM.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

  7. #267
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    Re: Does defense justify torture?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    And no one's making it clear what they mean.
    This is because the critics of government (Bush) are largely left embarrassed after their tirade. What started out as a legitmite awareness has snow balled into extremism that is willing to argue the point as if torture has been the law of the land. This is why everybody evades the fact that only three exceptional cases have been legitimately substantiated. This is why they evade the fact that Bush issued orders to ban waterboarding in 2007. And this is why they choose to simply argue the idea of torture while implying that they are crusading over a fascist evil American empire.

    They may as well bitch about whether or not America should be nuking China.

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  8. #268
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    Re: Does defense justify torture?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    Whwn posed with two choises that violate the categorical imperative, one must make the choice that causes the least harm.
    I agree.

    Mere survival makes us no better than the beasts of the wild.

    I'd much prefer to die a human than live as an animal.
    I'm already gearing up for Finger Vote 2014.

    Just for reference, means my post was a giant steaming pile of sarcasm.

  9. #269
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    Re: Does defense justify torture?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    I don't know what the point of your argument is but here is what the point of mine is. Letting a government torture opens the door for it to torture anyone. It's accepting that the government has power to physically assault a person if it feels justified enough to. See the use of the word 'feels'? Yeah. That's not a power I'm willing to let the government have.
    Well, the government doesn't torture. The problem with this philosophical exercise is that it leaves the impression that America is torturing. Especially since the entire world added their own bit of exaggeration to the subject of waterboarding. If you ask about 95 percent of our critics, "Who was waterboarded?", you will get just a simple explanation on how America shouldn't torture. It's pathetic. And where are the great complaints about GITMO since President Obama was elected? Right now, we have 60+ Yemenese set free by the courts, but Obama has retained them anyway. They can't go back to Yemen and no other nation wants them. So they sit in GITMO as free men. Where's the great complaint for equal and human rights by the Global Left now?

    It was always BS. And arguing about it like this merely legitimizes the untruth.
    Last edited by MSgt; 11-13-10 at 01:53 PM.

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  10. #270
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    Re: Does defense justify torture?

    Quote Originally Posted by MSgt View Post
    The "great torture machine" of the evil American empire comes down to a few waterboarded individuals and a mess of debate and exaggeration. Here are their names...

    1) Khalid Shaikh Mohammed
    2) Abu Zubayda
    3) Abd al-Rahim al-Nashiri
    I do not, for a picosecond, believe that these are the only individuals our government has tortured, and that's not even getting into the people we've handed over to be tortured by someone else.

    Nevertheless, a numerical argument is asinine.

    One person tortured is one too many.
    I'm already gearing up for Finger Vote 2014.

    Just for reference, means my post was a giant steaming pile of sarcasm.

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