"He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
This is such a stupid conversation. It's merely an exercise in philosophy. People are either so eager to smear America's face in the mud, that they are willing to stand next to the enemy, or they are so caught up in the exaggerations and lies that they feel that they have to defend an untruth. America's "great torture machine" of the 21st century comes down to a few individuals. Not the hundreds of thousands in Algeria by the French (of which no official [military or civilian] has ever been held accountable), not the millions of Europeans by the Germans, and not the hundreds of thousands of Africans by European colonizers, but a few individual religious extremists that can be named. Let's look at a few facts.....
The "great torture machine" of the evil American empire comes down to a few waterboarded individuals and a mess of debate and exaggeration. Here are their names...- On 20 July 2007, U.S. President George W. Bush signed an executive order banning torture during interrogation of terror suspects.
- On 14 September 2007, ABC News reported that sometime in 2006 CIA Director Michael Hayden asked for and received permission from the Bush administration to ban the use of waterboarding in CIA interrogations, although a CIA spokesperson declined to discuss interrogation techniques, which he or she said "have been and continue to be lawful." The sources of this information were current and former CIA officials. ABC reported that waterboarding had been authorized by a 2002 Presidential finding. On 5 November 2007, The Wall Street Journal reported that its "sources confirm... that the CIA has only used this interrogation method against three terrorist detainees and not since 2003.
- Both houses of the United States Congress approved a bill by February 2008 that would ban waterboarding and other harsh interrogation methods, the Intelligence Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2008.
- President Barack Obama banned the use of waterboarding and several other interrogation methods in January 2009.
- Waterboarding - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
1) Khalid Shaikh Mohammed
2) Abu Zubayda
3) Abd al-Rahim al-Nashiri
You are all free to look these angels of Islam up for yourselves. So where is this mass of Muslim victim so many critics imagine exists? Who are they? The rumor is that secret torture camps across Europe exists and that all GITMO captives are being "tortured." Surely there should be more than just the delicious rumors and drama. The exaggerations are so pathetic and so impractical that it is amazing that so many American people have offerred to lobotimize their own brains to tow the Democratic and Global Leftist lines. The rumor mill got so bad that we have behaved as if we should self-flaggilate if any Muslim captive had to ever smell our troop's bacon in the morning. Does it matter that it is mostly BS? Of course not. Our enemy only cares to produce the argument of our own stupid people to "prove" our evil and their mission's legitimacy. Way to go dumb asses. Applause, applause, applause. If it went towards damaging the hated Bush administration, Americans were all about the BS. And the rest of the global Left care only to smear America as always. Anybody notice how absolutely quiet the Democratic Party has become in regards to GITMO or the torture subject since President Obama took the throne? Of course not. After the Democratic Party whipped the masses into a partisan frenzy for their purposes, they left them to their confusions and radicalisms.
We can all argue over what is right in a perfect world, but what have we actually done in the world we live in? All of the world can do as it pleases, without ramification, but the moment America proves less than perfect and crosses a line by a centimeter the world demands satisfaction? We are victims of our own moral pedestal. We are expected to be perfect by the global masses and since we are not, we are criticized for it. When does the international organizations begin condemning the truly guilty for torture? For genocide. For ethnic cleansing? Or for the political and social oppressions throughout the world? I wonder how the international organizations would react to America if it refused to build Mosques in New York, or stripped women of their scarves in public places, or demanded a certain group of people out of the country. But for three (for the sake of argument, let's go ahead and assume an unproven dozen more) waterboarded terrorists post 9/11 America gets to be worse than Germans and Frenchmen who proudly engineerd true torture from Algeria to Europe and politicial and social persecution towards Muslims. And certainly it supposed to make us worse than the ethnic persecutions, cleansings, and genocides throughout the Arab Middle East. What a pathetic hypocritical world.
The debate alone implies truth to the exaggerations and unsubstantiated facts. It allows for others to cling to the assumptions and the falshoods. It allows others to get away with their use of it to legitmize their behaviors. And it unjustly smears an America that deserves better from the pieces of ****s that breath protected free air.
Last edited by MSgt; 11-13-10 at 12:15 PM.
"We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress & the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution, but overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution."
- Abraham Lincoln
let us say that you are patrolling down a street to the local souq (this happened) and you see a blue bongo truck accelerate on a side-lane towards the patrol. now, reporting indicates that a blue bongo truck is going to be used in a suicide attack against coalition forces, and accelerating towards a patrol is not only against what everyone knows to be the rules, it's the first sign of an attack. you wave your flag, put off a pop-up; the guy keeps coming at you, even speeding up. now you can see that it's an old guy, and he seems to be arguing with a younger male in the front seat. so, it looks like an old guy driving a truck full of stuff to market, but it also looks like a VBIED getting ready to take out yourself, your patrol, and all the civilians in the market that you're in. all you can do to stop him at this point is to shoot him. but you don't know if he's a civilian, or a suicide bomber intent on producing mass-casualties. yeah, he seems to have his son in the seat, but AQI also had a habit of using kids as shields for that exact reason; they knew we tended not to suspect people with kids.
so, do you shoot, and definitely kill a possibly innocent man? or do you not shoot, and possibly allow an attack that will definitely kill lots of innocent people?
in the kind of war that we are in, we are blessed to have some blacks and whites (AQI tortures children as an intimidation tactic; they are evil and all deserve to die); but the vast majority of decisions in warfare are made in shades of grey, because you simply lack total information.
end of story; we shot. everyone else in the squad zeroed in on the shot and fired as well. the truck stopped before it got within a kill radius of the people in the market. turned out the guy was just old and deaf; we blew a 60 year old man to pieces in front of his family, his son and wife's upper bodies were literally covered in pieces of him. right decision? wrong decision? who knows. it was the decision.
“If we must have an enemy at the head of Government, let it be one whom we can oppose, and for whom we are not responsible, who will not involve our party in the disgrace of his foolish and bad measures.”
- Alexander Hamilton. Spiritual father of #NeverTrump
The problem with letting the government torture is that well, you're letting the government torture. For all the bitching I hear about the government being incompetent when dealing with welfare, healthcare, guns, crime, drugs etc. I can't help but wonder why somebody would allow a body they feel is incompetent deal with something like torture. People don't think the federal government should handle marriage but they are willing to entrust it with torture?
Last edited by Hatuey; 11-13-10 at 12:21 PM.
I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK