View Poll Results: Does defense justify torture?

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Thread: Does defense justify torture?

  1. #231
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    Re: Does defense justify torture?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    Well, since I'm going to loose my values and integrity when I loose my life, at least I'll have my life if I choose to adopt my enemey's tactics, and so that's the way I'll go.
    And I would say that only a coward forfeits his values to save his life. It is a disservice to the courageous men and women who serve this country to infer that the values that they are fighting for....aren't really that important after all.
    <font size=5><b>Its been several weeks since the Vegas shooting.  Its it still "Too Early" or can we start having the conversation about finally doing something about these mass shootings???​</b></font>

  2. #232
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    Re: Does defense justify torture?

    No one is forfeiting any values or fluctuating in the wind.

    The values remain the same, we just aren't absolutists like you. There's no fluctuation, just the usual balancing of rights vs. other rights and needs that most people execute every day. It seems you are incapable of balancing these, so you run to black/white arguments.
    Last edited by ecofarm; 11-12-10 at 08:56 PM.

  3. #233
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    Re: Does defense justify torture?

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    No one is forfeiting any values or fluctuating in the wind.

    The values remain the same, we just aren't absolutists like you. There's no fluctuation, just the usual balancing of rights vs. other rights and needs that most people execute every day. It seems you are incapable of balancing these, so you run to black/white arguments.
    Sounds like BS and "Justification" to me. If you are changing your values depending on the threat faced, then you absolutely are flucuating.

    There are some areas that are absolutely black and white. Ethics/Values/Integrity are not areas that are gray. Sorry.
    <font size=5><b>Its been several weeks since the Vegas shooting.  Its it still "Too Early" or can we start having the conversation about finally doing something about these mass shootings???​</b></font>

  4. #234
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    Re: Does defense justify torture?

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    Sounds like BS and "Justification" to me. If you are changing your values depending on the threat faced, then you absolutely are flucuating.
    At the beginning of World War II, the Allies were absolutely against wholesale bombing of civilian populations. As the war dragged on, we started doing it.

    Those who argued that the Allied leaders who approved it should have been tried for war crimes themselves were generally marginlized, ignored, and laughed at. Still are to this day.
    “Offing those rich pigs with their own forks and knives, and then eating a meal in the same room, far out! The Weathermen dig Charles Manson.”-- Bernadine Dohrn

  5. #235
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    Re: Does defense justify torture?

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    Sounds like BS and "Justification" to me. If you are changing your values depending on the threat faced, then you absolutely are flucuating.

    There are some areas that are absolutely black and white. Ethics/Values/Integrity are not areas that are gray. Sorry.
    In the world of politics, it is gray. However much we wish it to be otherwise, actors routinely act in contrary to ethics, values, and morality. Sorry to pop your bubble.
    Michael J Petrilli-"Is School Choice Enough?"-A response to the recent timidity of American conservatives toward education reform. https://nationalaffairs.com/publicat...-choice-enough

  6. #236
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    Re: Does defense justify torture?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    In the world of politics, it is gray. However much we wish it to be otherwise, actors routinely act in contrary to ethics, values, and morality. Sorry to pop your bubble.
    You aren't "popping my bubble" or telling me anything that I don't know. It doesn't mean that I have to have any level of respect for anyone in the world of politics whose values and ethics flucuate. I've been around the block....and as a result I have seen enough to know that ethics/values are not gray areas...or at least for people that I respect. I find it unconscionable, however, to ask the men/women of our military to put their lives on the line to fight for American values/ethics and then flucuate and change those values like they are meaningless.
    <font size=5><b>Its been several weeks since the Vegas shooting.  Its it still "Too Early" or can we start having the conversation about finally doing something about these mass shootings???​</b></font>

  7. #237
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    Re: Does defense justify torture?

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    The values remain the same, we just aren't absolutists like you. There's no fluctuation, just the usual balancing of rights...
    I don't know, is it just me or is this several instances of self refutation in one sentence?

  8. #238
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    Re: Does defense justify torture?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    At the beginning of World War II, the Allies were absolutely against wholesale bombing of civilian populations. As the war dragged on, we started doing it.
    Those who argued that the Allied leaders who approved it should have been tried for war crimes themselves were generally marginlized, ignored, and laughed at. Still are to this day.
    Same goes for torpedoing defenseless merchant vessels w/o warning.
    In fact, part of the reason Doenitz was not executed for war crimes is because we did it too.

  9. #239
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    Re: Does defense justify torture?

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    Amnesty International wants Bush prosecuted for his roll in waterboarding. One of the defenses of Bush I have come across is that torture is when used to defend innocent lives. I will admit, it is an interesting question for me to explore.

    What is your opinion?
    The rights of illegal combatants most of whom are from other countries therefore the constitution and Geneva convention does not apply to and I could care less about. The lives and safety of my fellow countrymen and those in the military who the constitution as well as the Geneva convention applies too and whom I actually care about? Why would it be that hard of a choice to make. If a guy broke into your home and threatened your family and you had a gun. Are you going to put a bullet in his head or let them to continue to harm your family because you do not want to infringe on the rights of people threatening your family?

    Amnesty International can go suck a dick, **** them. I suppose if it was Gore that won the presidency, had the balls to go retaliate against the Taliban for a terrorist attack committed against us and had simulated water drowning perform(NOT TORTURE) on terrorists for information then you would be saying Amnesty international can go suck a dick and **** them.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

  10. #240
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    Re: Does defense justify torture?

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    And I would say that only a coward forfeits his values to save his life. It is a disservice to the courageous men and women who serve this country to infer that the values that they are fighting for....aren't really that important after all.
    Ok, you would say that.

    .......and?

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