View Poll Results: Does defense justify torture?

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  • Yes

    37 48.68%
  • No

    25 32.89%
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Thread: Does defense justify torture?

  1. #191
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    ecofarm's Avatar
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    Re: Does defense justify torture?

    Also irrational.

    Ya'll have fun now.

  2. #192
    Farts in Elevators
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    Re: Does defense justify torture?

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    I, for one, am not willing to sacrifice our values and integrity to win a war.
    good thing the guys back in WWII didn't think that way or we would all be speaking German or Japanese.


    It's easy to sit back and talk about not sacrificing values when there are those who are willing to do whatever is necessary to protect them for you.
    The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.

    An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.

  3. #193
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    Re: Does defense justify torture?

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    That's irrational. The basis of our law and judicial system is the infrinment of some rights to protect others. A simple example: restricting protest to certain zones and only when authorized by the city - this restricts the right to free speech and demonstration in order to preserve public safety.

    Again, the above quote is irrational.
    It's horrible that the are "free speech zones". If you don't know the fundamental reason why it's wrong to restrict protest to government appointed areas, then you're beyond irrational and into the blind zone. What's irrational is to accept government expansion against our rights without so much as a peep of protest. I'll never understand the irrationality of giving up rights for "safety".
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  4. #194
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    Re: Does defense justify torture?

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    When you adopt the tactics of your enemies to beat your enemies....yes, you might win the battle, but at what cost? I, for one, am not willing to sacrifice our values and integrity to win a war.
    Nor should we. If we abandon our principles to uphold the rights and liberties of the individual, we become no better than any other despot in history.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  5. #195
    global liberation

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    Re: Does defense justify torture?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    If we abandon our principles to uphold the rights and liberties of the individual, we become no better than any other despot in history.
    "Abandoning" and "no better", that's two illegitimate black/white arguments in one sentence. Impressive.

    We don't abandon, we allow for grey-area in a real world.

    Just because the US waterboards three people since 9/11 and gets info that saves thousands of lives does not make it equivalent to Nazis. Spare me your thinly veiled Godwin.
    Last edited by ecofarm; 11-12-10 at 01:25 PM.

  6. #196
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    Re: Does defense justify torture?

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    "Abandoning" and "no better", that's two illegitimate black/white arguments in one sentence. Impressive.
    Almost as impressive as your ability to not add anything substantial. Almost
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  7. #197
    global liberation

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    Re: Does defense justify torture?

    Pointing out two false dicotomies followed by a Godwin is just my duty. There was not even anything else in the post. Lack of substance?

    You're welcome.
    Last edited by ecofarm; 11-12-10 at 01:30 PM.

  8. #198
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    Re: Does defense justify torture?

    Do you also take the time to point out your hyperbole and distortions; or is this just a one way street?
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  9. #199
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    Re: Does defense justify torture?

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    "Abandoning" and "no better", that's two illegitimate black/white arguments in one sentence. Impressive.

    We don't abandon, we allow for grey-area in a real world.

    Just because the US waterboards three people since 9/11 and gets info that saves thousands of lives does not make it equivalent to Nazis. Spare me your thinly veiled Godwin.
    There is no "Gray Area" when it comes to values, ethics and integrity.
    <font size=5><b>Its been several weeks since the Vegas shooting.  Its it still "Too Early" or can we start having the conversation about finally doing something about these mass shootings???​</b></font>

  10. #200
    global liberation

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    Re: Does defense justify torture?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Do you also take the time to point out your hyperbole and distortions; or is this just a one way street?
    I always try to point out my bias or rhetoric (or dogmatism, or ideologiness), I'm self aware and like to prove it; however, the topic at hand is...

    You put forth that one was perfect in their principles or the principles were abandoned. False dichotomy.

    You put forth that one was perfect in their principles or they were "no better than any other despot". We didn't need th "in history", as no one would have countered with fictional despots. Anyway, false dichotomy AND Godwin.

    Impressively enough, you managed these two FDs and a GW in a single sentence. Of that, one should be proud, at least in some way. Gratz.


    Then you complain about me lacking substance. Either debate letgitimately and with intellectual honesty or at least don't cry too much when people call you on it. Further, don't call the kettle black when called on it; my posts at least are actually productive or useful in some way, false dichotomies and Godwins are not.
    Last edited by ecofarm; 11-12-10 at 01:41 PM.

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