View Poll Results: Does defense justify torture?

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    37 48.68%
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Thread: Does defense justify torture?

  1. #161
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    Re: Does defense justify torture?

    Quote Originally Posted by Orion View Post
    This basically sums up my belief.

    The ends justifies the means if you're a country like China, or the former USSR, but the U.S. is supposed to stand for more. The issue of whether or not something like waterboarding is "torture" is not as important as the U.S. betraying its own supposed values.
    I'd rather "stoop to their level" and win than "stick to my values", "take the moral high ground", "stand for more" and lose.
    The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.

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  2. #162
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    Re: Does defense justify torture?

    The mere fact that, in order to waterboard detainees, our military needed the authorization of the President of the United States tells me that we are taking the moral high ground. Bunch'a idealistic babies on this thread.
    The devil whispered in my ear, "You cannot withstand the storm." I whispered back, "I am ​the storm."

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    Re: Does defense justify torture?

    Quote Originally Posted by SE102 View Post
    As far as Im concerned already monitoring all internet traffic and all cellular conversations through filters should be sufficient. The surveillance state and intelligence work alone should be more than enough to safeguard citizens without expenses to freedoms. These moralistic dilemmas shouldn't be in the first place.
    I don't think the government should be allowed to arbitrarily monitor all internet traffic and all cellular conversations. That's a bit too much of a breach in privacy.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

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    Re: Does defense justify torture?

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    The mere fact that, in order to waterboard detainees, our military needed the authorization of the President of the United States tells me that we are taking the moral high ground. Bunch'a idealistic babies on this thread.
    Because you have to ask permission from the government, you're taking the high ground? I don't think so. Especially since the consideration is on the government's decision to use torture as a possible device for dealing with terrorists. And the people we've randomly thrown into GITMO.

    It's not a good thing to use torture. Like I said before, given the uncertainties involved torture is rarely an effective and just tool for data extraction.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    Re: Does defense justify torture?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    And the people we've randomly thrown into GITMO.
    sorry dude...no one has been "randomly" thrown into GITMO. Harold and Kumar don't count...that was just a movie
    The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.

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  6. #166
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    Re: Does defense justify torture?

    Quote Originally Posted by OscarB63 View Post
    sorry dude...no one has been "randomly" thrown into GITMO. Harold and Kumar don't count...that was just a movie
    So you think people have all been "caught on the battlefield" eh? Not entirely. What possible method of chekcs and balances did we have in place to ensure that only terrorists were being thrown in there and not some dudes that some other dudes said were terrorists?
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    Re: Does defense justify torture?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Because you have to ask permission from the government, you're taking the high ground? I don't think so. Especially since the consideration is on the government's decision to use torture as a possible device for dealing with terrorists. And the people we've randomly thrown into GITMO.

    It's not a good thing to use torture. Like I said before, given the uncertainties involved torture is rarely an effective and just tool for data extraction.
    Well, then, we disagree, Ikari. And I venture to say we also disagree on whether or not waterboarding rises to the level of torture. If I take the position just for a moment that it does rise to that level, then I still have the condundrum that these prisoners were terrorists. Terrorists have no protection under any international treaties.

    The fact that our government prosecuted the Japanese in WWII for waterboarding is immaterial. They were waterboarding POWs protected explicitly by the Geneva Convention.
    The devil whispered in my ear, "You cannot withstand the storm." I whispered back, "I am ​the storm."

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    Re: Does defense justify torture?


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    Re: Does defense justify torture?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    I don't think the government should be allowed to arbitrarily monitor all internet traffic and all cellular conversations. That's a bit too much of a breach in privacy.
    It's impossible for any human to watch that traffic. I believe it's filtered through computers if it exists. If it doesnt already it should.

  10. #170
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    Re: Does defense justify torture?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    So you think people have all been "caught on the battlefield" eh? Not entirely. What possible method of chekcs and balances did we have in place to ensure that only terrorists were being thrown in there and not some dudes that some other dudes said were terrorists?
    I'm not saying that everyone there is 100% guilty or that there are not people there who were falsely accused by an enemy. But that is not the same thing as "randomly" thrown in. When you say "randomly thrown in" it makes it sound like we picked a village off the map and went through and snatched up every 3rd guy we saw.
    The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.

    An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.

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