View Poll Results: Does defense justify torture?

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  • Yes

    37 48.68%
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    25 32.89%
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Thread: Does defense justify torture?

  1. #131
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    Re: Does defense justify torture?

    Quote Originally Posted by SE102 View Post
    I never said such a thing, this does not negate the military involvement of the west in the middle east. Do you think we'd have the current situation in Iran without our involvement in the prior government?
    Probably not as bad. But let's be honest. The Shah was never the brute critics want him to be and even the Iranian elite knew they made a mistake with Khomeini. America has had nothing to do with their government since 1979. That's over three decades that Iranians have had to decide their own destinies. What have they done except blame? After steadily moving towards more democracy, the religious fanatics of the nation ensure a Khoimieni disciple gets elected and drives them backwards. But Iran is a Shia nation. One that no Sunni nation cares about in regards to equality or as a "victim."

    The Middle East is vast and mostly of Sunni persuasion. It's the Sunni that make up Al-Queda...not the Shia inside and outside of Iran. There resentments are solely focused on hating Isreal (more Khomeini hold over) and not on international terrorism. Our problems are Sunni Arabs throughout the Arab region.
    Last edited by MSgt; 11-11-10 at 08:39 PM.

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  2. #132
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    Re: Does defense justify torture?

    Isn't it weird how most of them support their government?

  3. #133
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    Re: Does defense justify torture?

    Quote Originally Posted by SE102 View Post
    I never said such a thing,
    I didn't imply that you did, I just wanted to know your opinion.

    this does not negate the military involvement of the west in the middle east.
    How come the Vietnamese, Japanese, Italiens, Germans, Spanish, British, etc that we have fought and/or beaten and occupied or taken territory from don't conduct terrorist activities against us?

    Do you think we'd have the current situation in Iran without our involvement in the prior government?
    Who knows... but does that justify the hatred? Chile, Cambodia and others seem to adjust just fine. Hell, we moulded the Japanese Constitution and entire government after we bombed them to hell and then nuked them, and they emerged as one of the worlds greatest economic powers. They are one of the richest and most free people on the planet. Same can be said of the Germans.

    The USA will leave the ME soon enough, and I bet that they will find another excuse to hate America and the West and find justifications to kill people. What of the terrorists threatening to kill French people for banning clothing? That is justified I bet, do you back that decision? I mean, the French are making a law in their own country, but somehow that concerns OBL and the terrorists in various countries... hypocritical losers, they are.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have pooped in public, even in public neighborhoods.
    Quote Originally Posted by OldFatGuy View Post
    Usually a gag for wise mouthed insulting little girls. Then some good nylon rope so I can tie them up, toss them in the trunk of my car and forget about them.

  4. #134
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    Re: Does defense justify torture?

    Quote Originally Posted by SE102 View Post
    Tee hee ur silly
    It isn't quite Treason, but along the same lines... deal with it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have pooped in public, even in public neighborhoods.
    Quote Originally Posted by OldFatGuy View Post
    Usually a gag for wise mouthed insulting little girls. Then some good nylon rope so I can tie them up, toss them in the trunk of my car and forget about them.

  5. #135
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    Re: Does defense justify torture?

    Quote Originally Posted by German guy View Post
    MSgt, I understand where you are coming from, but I don't agree with you at all. Your points make a lot of sense, from a pragmatic point of view. But they are completely lacking any kind of ethical consideration or morals.
    Unfortunately, we live in a pragmatic world where ethical and moral consideration is often enough a luxury. How much ethical and moral standard was shoved aside during World War II? The Cold War? But today, we pretend to belong to a world that doesn't exist? That we have learned how to defeat our enemies with manners somewhere between the Berlin Wall coming down and 9-11? This is too often the cry of the classroom veteran who knows nothing about the world he judges and assumes to be above of. War is war. And this is a world where even atomic bombs have been forgiven for the greater good. If a few get waterboarded while constrained to specific rules and guidelines (I'm sure you can think of the true examples of others who had no rules or constraint in their interrogations) for the greater good, then so be it.

    And no one has yet to deliver a number of who or where this supposed mass torture by American hands has occurred. This conversation is based on the rumors. Rumors that were ignited and feuled by the Democratic Party who absolutely ignore the issue today.
    Last edited by MSgt; 11-11-10 at 08:54 PM.

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  6. #136
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    Re: Does defense justify torture?

    Quote Originally Posted by SE102 View Post
    Isn't it weird how most of them support their government?
    Most of who?

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  7. #137
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    Re: Does defense justify torture?

    No it's not... if it were treason alot of people would've been whisked away into camps for isolation.
    I'm no traitor this is a free society.
    That's ripe coming from a kiwi.
    What kindof Bodhi are you?

    How come the Vietnamese, Japanese, Italiens, Germans, Spanish, British, etc that we have fought and/or beaten and occupied or taken territory from don't conduct terrorist activities against us?
    Excellent question grasshopper,
    None of them have had to engage us in assymetric warfare to the degree that say, palestine fights Israel.

    Hell, we moulded the Japanese Constitution and entire government after we bombed them to hell and then nuked them, and they emerged as one of the worlds greatest economic powers. They are one of the richest and most free people on the planet. Same can be said of the Germans.
    They were some of the worlds greatest economic powers before, their economic strength benefitted us in trade, don't think it was out of some great amount of benevolence that we did this.

    The USA will leave the ME soon enough, and I bet that they will find another excuse to hate America and the West and find justifications to kill people.
    You're knowledge of human affairs is limited, spunky one.

    What of the terrorists threatening to kill French people for banning clothing?
    You mean banning what they deem to be a sign of their religion through fear and misunderstanding? Hell why do they want to kill us, we only showed them we're wiling to burn their holy books despite the fact they are more judaic than christianity.

    hypocritical losers, they are.
    Fighting a losing battle they are... but that is the nature of the battlefield god has bestowed upon earth.

    Also... I sense a little of the dark side in you.

  8. #138
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    Re: Does defense justify torture?

    Quote Originally Posted by SE102 View Post
    Tee hee ur silly
    Well, add two plus two and come up with four.

    Islamic radicals have made their impractical demands and justified their behaviors on rediculous excuses and deceits. If one in the west is willing to use their excuses and deceits as reasons or as ways to make us one big happy family, then what do you call it?

    And you have yet to offer some substance to this mass American torture program and the legion of Muslim victims.

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  9. #139
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    Re: Does defense justify torture?

    Quote Originally Posted by MSgt View Post
    Most of who?
    Iran... according to the more comprehensive polling. I've posted it several times on the forums.

    Analysis of Multiple Polls Finds Little Evidence Iranian Public Sees Government as Illegitimate - World Public Opinion

    It has files that you can use to analyse the raw data, unfortunately the software is very expensive and without access to a statistics or political science lab you wont be able to view it.

  10. #140
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    Re: Does defense justify torture?

    Quote Originally Posted by SE102 View Post
    Isn't it weird how most of them support their government?
    I read, and will try to find, that 70% of Iranians are under 30 years of age and very pro-western...
    It is a small and fanatical religious element that has the power and will not give it up.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have pooped in public, even in public neighborhoods.
    Quote Originally Posted by OldFatGuy View Post
    Usually a gag for wise mouthed insulting little girls. Then some good nylon rope so I can tie them up, toss them in the trunk of my car and forget about them.

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