View Poll Results: Does defense justify torture?

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Thread: Does defense justify torture?

  1. #111
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    Re: Does defense justify torture?

    What's crazy to me is that many of the people here saying that we should be able to torture are the same people who are always complaining that the government is incompetent and needs to stay out of our lives. So you don't want the government in your lives or taking your money but you think they're qualified to know when and when not to torture detainees? It's funny how conservatives suddenly trust the government when their pocketbooks aren't on the line.
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  2. #112
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    Re: Does defense justify torture?

    Quote Originally Posted by SE102 View Post
    Please... offer a substantiated number of tortured, until then we have the right to assume out government doing its worst.
    Strange you hate the government, but don't care if it could possibly be torturing dozens to hundreds of people at once.
    Well, you have the right to worship pine cones, but I would expect a measure of practical common sense to prevail. With all this rumor, Democratic partisan grandstanding, and exaggerated accusations.....where is this mass torture program? You use the words "assume" and "possible" and "dozens." What does this tell you? A mass torture progams full of secret torture camps would surely offermore than dozens. And certainly with thousands in cutody between GITMO, Iraq, and Afghanistan (places that do exist in the realm of proof) you limit your earlier implications to a mere possible hundreds? You are clueless and you know it. You just like the accusation.

    By the way, I don't hate the government. I just don't have any impractical expectations of perfection and I demand better stewards. If torture is in order, I expect torture without your attention so as to allow you your illusions of easy freedom and lifestyle. I don't expect a bunch of dip****s willing to embarrass the nation for some political points. The "Greatest Generation" dropped atomic bombs. How dare this generation waterboard a few souls.

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  3. #113
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    Re: Does defense justify torture?

    Quote Originally Posted by MSgt View Post
    Globalization tends to involve the entire globe. This complaint about "Muslim land" is a myth used by protestors that need simplicity to explain away a complex issue. I guess immigration is for all...except the Middle East?
    Firstly, right to sovereignty, meaning not to have their governments controlled by our companies. Secondly... immigration to the ME, are you talking about Israel?



    Are you aware that only the radicals inside Iran agree with Amenedejad's order to ban all western cultural influence in Iran? Are you aware that Western culture (specifically the American culture) was deemed as against God in the 1950s by a man named Sayyid Qutb and his academic works are held dear by the Muslim Brotherhood?
    Don't even try to start talking about the apocalypse to me. Firstly you wouldnt accept Islamic influence in your community. So you can really stuff that point. Secondly, our country has a history of imperially ****ing other countries. Human reciprocity here.

    Did you know that there is a direct line from him to Osama Bin Laden?
    Pfft, so, a murderer is a murderer. I dont care if his name is Mulsamico-al-jihad or Americano-San-conquernator

    And that almost all Sunni terrorists (Al-Queda among them) are members? You see without support for Israel...without a base in Saudi Arabia....without defending Saudi Arabia against Saddam Hussein, without our "infectious" culture, ...and without our freedom of expression, radical members of a failed religious region would merely find another excuse to lash out their resentments and blames.
    OMg they got problems from us being there for so long we gotta enforce some mofr problems today!

    Another fact that escapes the classroom veterans far from the region is that Al-Queda has killed far more Muslims than westerners.
    Not sure about that. Wikileaks and the number of people and families shot up at checkpoints might be in conflict... gotta research that one.

    Another fact is that throughout the twentieth century (and this one) fellow Muslims have proven to be a Muslim's worse enemy. This is a sure sign of a religionin crisis. And the twentieth century proved that Islam as an organizing tool has failed. This is why the radicals seek a "pure" Islam and are willing to slaughter asmany of their own to achieve the impossible in a progressive world.
    Righteous ****, glad you're a progressive.

    If you actually think about your protests you would find that you wish to cater towards the radical rather than the vast majority who seek a path that travels away from Sharia and contuined regional failure. There's a reason Turkey and Israel are leaps and bounds beyond the rest in this region.
    Not for the reasons you assume.

  4. #114
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    Re: Does defense justify torture?

    Quote Originally Posted by SE102 View Post
    Weird... theres that like... history of you know colonialism of like you know...200 years or so... and not to mention the denial of geopolitical reality of the last oh... since the cold war.
    That is the past, what Western country right now is occupying "Muslim land".
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    Usually a gag for wise mouthed insulting little girls. Then some good nylon rope so I can tie them up, toss them in the trunk of my car and forget about them.

  5. #115
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    Re: Does defense justify torture?

    Quote Originally Posted by MSgt View Post
    With all this rumor, Democratic partisan grandstanding, and exaggerated accusations...
    Now I know you're a waste of time.

  6. #116
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    Re: Does defense justify torture?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    That is the past, what Western country right now is occupying "Muslim land".
    Iraq... afghanistan..

    Ima draw a 2d picture



    (america)--------------------(foreign navy)---------------------(Middle East)


    Place the foreign navy as accurately as possible on the scale.

  7. #117
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    Re: Does defense justify torture?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mustachio View Post
    What's crazy to me is that many of the people here saying that we should be able to torture are the same people who are always complaining that the government is incompetent and needs to stay out of our lives. So you don't want the government in your lives or taking your money but you think they're qualified to know when and when not to torture detainees? It's funny how conservatives suddenly trust the government when their pocketbooks aren't on the line.
    Don't make the mistake others are making here. GITMO is alive and well under a Democratic White House and absolutely ignored by the Democratic Party. This transcends the simpleton's need for it to be political. "Torture" was always merely a political tool as the ignorant around the globe jumped aboard. It was never the mass program people wanted it to be and waterboarding was always reserved for the extreme exception. Using the word "torture" merely added spice to the protest. Bush's only sin was condoning it in the public's eye. Interrogation went on before him and will go on during and after Obama's time.

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  8. #118
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    Re: Does defense justify torture?

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    The Universal Declaration of Human Rights

    Much of that is violated by prison. In the US, life and the right to vote are violated in prison; I'm against both of those punishments.
    Agreed. Even criminal prisoners deserve the protection of their rights. Debating the American prison system is probably going off-topic, so I just say I believe it bitterly deserves reform as well. Isn't the number of prisoners per capita very high in the US? The often reported allegedly horrible conditions and many "accidents" in American prisons are not in order, something should be done here. Also, it seems to me that many people, in America and elsewhere, are quick at judging convicted criminals, vengeful thinking is common, considering them monsters and denying them a second chance. The idea of rehabilitation has no priority. That's bad, both ethically and practically, IMHO. Of course, some extreme cases can never be expected to have a second chance, but most prisoners can, and investing in means to prepare them for their second chance, and prevention, rather than taking revenge and debasing them, would probably save a lot of money on the long run.
    "Not learning from mistakes is worse than committing mistakes. When you don't allow yourself to make mistakes, it is hard to be tolerant of others and it does not allow even God to be merciful."

  9. #119
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    Re: Does defense justify torture?

    Quote Originally Posted by SE102 View Post
    How honorable right

    You're still vaporising the crops of natives in SAmerica who have been harvesting their holy plants since before there was reading in europe... cmon.
    Don't know what you are talking about. This is not genocide. The "free" market and the international banking system has a lot of people in the third world screwed. No genocide has come from American hands since our extended pioneer days. Can we state the same for Europeans in the twentieth century as late as the 1990s? Or the Middle East or Africa or Asia? Like I stated, it's our morality that allows us to move on from mistakes never to repeat them. And now, with the entire world seeking to cricify America for a handful of waterboarding cases after 9-11, we won't even make this one again.

    Hundreds of thousands tortuired in Algeria by the French. Millions tortured by Germans in Europe. Hell, tens of thousands of Africans were tortured by Germans in Africa even before this. Any lessons learned at all? What was going on in "Yugoslavia" over a decade ago? But America waterboards a few terrorists for information after we are attacked on 9-11 and we "must pay" for our sins. Got to love that pedestal the world places us on.
    Last edited by MSgt; 11-11-10 at 08:00 PM.

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  10. #120
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    Re: Does defense justify torture?

    The Universal Declaration of Human Rights is an entirely hypocritical piece of paper. Someone who plots to kill the innocent, is part of a terrorist organization, and has information that could be life saving and beneficial in eradicating terrorism should be interrogated to the fullest extent feasible (including torture and drugs).
    When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. -Socrates
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