View Poll Results: Is Oklahoma Sharia Ban Constitutional?

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  • Yes

    17 51.52%
  • No, It's against the First Amendment of our Constitution

    9 27.27%
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    7 21.21%
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Thread: Is Oklahoma Sharia Ban Constitutional?

  1. #21
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    Re: Is Oklahoma Sharia Ban Constitutional?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    The law only codifies the relevant section of the 1st amendment - how can that be unconstitutional?
    :shrug;
    Um, no, it doesn't do only that:

    Quote Originally Posted by Section 1, Subsection C, known as the "Save Our State Amendment"

    "... The Courts shall not look to the legal precepts of other nations or cultures. Specifically, the courts shall not consider international law or Sharia law. ..."
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    Re: Is Oklahoma Sharia Ban Constitutional?

    Quote Originally Posted by TacticalEvilDan View Post
    Um, no, it doesn't do only that:
    I was speaking to the prohibition agianst the consideration of Sharia law, which is, apparently, the primary point of contention.

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    Re: Is Oklahoma Sharia Ban Constitutional?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    I don't know enough about the details of Oklahoma's law to really have an informed opinion, but it sounds like this guy is suing because he wants his property to be divided in accordance with Sharia law. If the Oklahoma law prohibits him from doing that, then I would say yes, it is a violation of his 1st Amendment rights. A will is a legal contract, so if the courts refuse to consider Sharia law even though that is this guy's clearly expressed intent, then it certainly sounds to me like his rights are being violated.

    But as I said, I don't know all the details of Oklahoma's law. I was under the impression that all it did was ban judges from citing sharia law in their decisions. If that's the case, it's probably passes constitutional muster. Stupid, yes. But nevertheless constitutional.
    If I'm reading your response correctly, you believe that his religous beliefs and practice should supercede the law of the land as defined by the constitution of the state and US government. Seriously???

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    Re: Is Oklahoma Sharia Ban Constitutional?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    I was speaking to the prohibition agianst the consideration of Sharia law, which is, apparently, the primary point of contention.
    Seeing as how "Sharia law" as it exists in the United States is contract law, this amendment does not only codify the relevant section of the Constitution.

    That aside, such an argument is asinine -- the Constitution doesn't require codification.
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    Re: Is Oklahoma Sharia Ban Constitutional?

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    If I'm reading your response correctly, you believe that his religous beliefs and practice should supercede the law of the land as defined by the constitution of the state and US government. Seriously???
    Uh, no.

    Wanting your stuff to be distributed / disposed of after you die in accordance with a specific religious tradition isn't putting that religious tradition above the law. It is practicing that religious tradition within the bounds of the law.
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    Re: Is Oklahoma Sharia Ban Constitutional?

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    If I'm reading your response correctly, you believe that his religous beliefs and practice should supercede the law of the land as defined by the constitution of the state and US government. Seriously???
    No, but if he wants to specify in his will that his property be divided in accordance with sharia - and the courts can figure out what he meant - then it's probably unconstitutional to not follow his wishes.
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    Re: Is Oklahoma Sharia Ban Constitutional?

    Quote Originally Posted by TacticalEvilDan View Post
    Uh, no.

    Wanting your stuff to be distributed / disposed of after you die in accordance with a specific religious tradition isn't putting that religious tradition above the law. It is practicing that religious tradition within the bounds of the law.
    No it isnt. There are certain laws that exist regarding things like wills and estate taxes that are described and mandated by law. I would for no other reason other than the fact that it is RIGHT rather my children inherit everything that I have worked for earned, and yes...been taxed for. I would prefer they get those pssessions without the government deciding somehow that it was their right to come in and tax those things yet again. Howver the law doesnt work that way. The law provides for wills.

    The constitution allows for free practice of religion...but it does not allow religous 'law' to supercede state and federal law.

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    Re: Is Oklahoma Sharia Ban Constitutional?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    No, but if he wants to specify in his will that his property be divided in accordance with sharia - and the courts can figure out what he meant - then it's probably unconstitutional to not follow his wishes.
    SO you are suggesting not that he be allowed to follow Sharia law but that he follow state law and have a will. Nothing preventing that...provided that Sharia law doesnt conflict with state and federal law. There is a reason why general "by law" wills are discouraged. They are vague and for too easily misinterpreted.

  9. #29
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    Re: Is Oklahoma Sharia Ban Constitutional?

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    SO you are suggesting not that he be allowed to follow Sharia law but that he follow state law and have a will. Nothing preventing that...provided that Sharia law doesnt conflict with state and federal law. There is a reason why general "by law" wills are discouraged. They are vague and for too easily misinterpreted.
    Well, I certainly wouldn't advise him to have such a vague passage in his will. Nevertheless, people do it all the time, and the courts generally try to figure out the person's intent as best they can. A state law that specifically singled out sharia for different treatment than other similarly vaguely-worded wills seems like religious discrimination to me.
    Last edited by Kandahar; 11-06-10 at 02:47 PM.
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    Re: Is Oklahoma Sharia Ban Constitutional?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    I don't know enough about the details of Oklahoma's law to really have an informed opinion, but it sounds like this guy is suing because he wants his property to be divided in accordance with Sharia law. If the Oklahoma law prohibits him from doing that, then I would say yes, it is a violation of his 1st Amendment rights. A will is a legal contract, so if the courts refuse to consider Sharia law even though that is this guy's clearly expressed intent, then it certainly sounds to me like his rights are being violated.

    But as I said, I don't know all the details of Oklahoma's law. I was under the impression that all it did was ban judges from citing sharia law in their decisions. If that's the case, it's probably passes constitutional muster. Stupid, yes. But nevertheless constitutional.
    How much **** do you want to protect under the 1st Amendment? Everything? This is about property, and we have laws on the books about how that happens. Sharia Law has not been passed by a legislative body in the US, so how is IT Constitutional? Please explain.
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