View Poll Results: Do libertarians inadvertently enable fascism?

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  • Yes

    9 16.98%
  • Probably

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  • Maybe

    8 15.09%
  • Probably not

    0 0%
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    33 62.26%
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    1 1.89%
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Thread: Do libertarians inadvertently enable fascism?

  1. #331
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    Re: Do libertarians inadvertently enable fascism?

    Quote Originally Posted by DrunkenAsparagus View Post
    I guess, what you're saying in the OP is that in a libertarian state, the government would be so weak, that it would be subject to overthrow or corruption by other powerful interests.
    Beyond question, IMHO. The historical playbook for radical usurpers has always included weakening the existing state.

    Quote Originally Posted by DrunkenAsparagus View Post
    My response is that a libertarian government still has all of mechanisms needed for it to work. It still has police, a military, and courts.
    So did every government overthrown in history. Clearly it takes more than the mere existence of institutions to defend them from usurpation.

    Quote Originally Posted by DrunkenAsparagus View Post
    The state is still fully capable of putting down unrest.
    Only unrest by the general population. To my knowledge, there has never been a case in history where a coup undertaken by economic elites in a state with extreme wealth inequality failed to succeed. The Business Plot against FDR only failed because it was exposed before the coup could be attempted, and even then - despite the impeccability of the witness - no one was ever prosecuted for it. The only way to head off such conspiracies is to keep inequality under control so that the power-value of money does not destabilize the state.

    Quote Originally Posted by DrunkenAsparagus View Post
    My point is, I don't see how all the extra stuff you want to add on, like entitlements, welfare, and other programs, would add to the stability and prevent fascism.
    On the one hand, it denies potential usurpers a populist angle - tyrants from Caesar to Hitler have greatly benefited from the vast poverty in their societies. On the other, progressive taxation, jobs programs, and infrastructure spending keep a significant portion of the economy subject to democratic mechanisms, thereby counter-balancing the power of private wealth. Freedom is all about balance of power, not merely its absence.

  2. #332
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    Re: Do libertarians inadvertently enable fascism?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    I say what I mean and I mean what I say. It would greatly further discussion if you did not interpret my words, twist my words, or attempt to change my words from what I wrote.
    "leave or stay as you see fit."

    Would anyone else like to defend Haymarket's argument?

  3. #333
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    Re: Do libertarians inadvertently enable fascism?

    I do not need anyone to defend my statement. There is nothing to defend... or attack. You are a free citizen to leave this land or to stay her as you see fit. That is not an opinion, but a fact and as such needs no defense.
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  4. #334
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    Re: Do libertarians inadvertently enable fascism?

    Right: "America -- LOVE IT OR LEAVE IT."
    “Offing those rich pigs with their own forks and knives, and then eating a meal in the same room, far out! The Weathermen dig Charles Manson.”-- Bernadine Dohrn

  5. #335
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    Re: Do libertarians inadvertently enable fascism?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    I do not need anyone to defend my statement. There is nothing to defend... or attack. You are a free citizen to leave this land or to stay her as you see fit. That is not an opinion, but a fact and as such needs no defense.
    "There are no walls keeping you or anyone here against their will if you do not like that arrangement."

    So, you leave me with two options. I can leave, or I can stay under the current arrangement. Or, as the Tea baggers might say: "Love it or leave it."

    Where's the option that lets me stay to try and change the arrangement?

  6. #336
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    Re: Do libertarians inadvertently enable fascism?

    Quote Originally Posted by ElijahGalt View Post
    "leave or stay as you see fit."

    Would anyone else like to defend Haymarket's argument?
    This is what falls out of one's mouth when they have completely run out of legitimate criticisms. According to my program, ad hominem is up to bat next.

  7. #337
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    Re: Do libertarians inadvertently enable fascism?

    Coronado... I am willing to bet you know nothing of what is next. Or do you have skills to predict the future? The lottery numbers that win tomorrow would be a nice demonstration of those skills.

    Galt - if you stay, of course you are free to exercise your rights as a citizen. Why would you not?
    Last edited by haymarket; 11-17-10 at 02:36 PM.
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  8. #338
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    Re: Do libertarians inadvertently enable fascism?

    Galt - if you stay, of course you are free to exercise your rights as a citizen. Why would you not?
    Shouldn't I be asking you that question, since you only left me with two options?

  9. #339
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    Re: Do libertarians inadvertently enable fascism?

    it looks like we both agree

    I never said stay and you have no rights
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  10. #340
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    Re: Do libertarians inadvertently enable fascism?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    it looks like we both agree

    I never said stay and you have no rights
    But you only gave me two options to choose from: Leave, or stay under the current arrangement. It sounds an awful lot like the leave-it-or-love-it sentiment.

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