View Poll Results: Do libertarians inadvertently enable fascism?

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  • Maybe

    8 15.09%
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Thread: Do libertarians inadvertently enable fascism?

  1. #301
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    Re: Do libertarians inadvertently enable fascism?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Its a meaningless and hollow word without meaning or context attached to it. You might as well invoke motherhood, bunny rabbits and christmas trees also.

    Lets be blunt about this: you and I can agree that freedom is a good thing - sometimes and in some situations. But I expect where we draw those lines would not always be in agreement. So to me its utterly silly and foolish to claim that you have an ideology based on freedom or liberty or anything else that is just a starting place for a bumper sticker.
    Yes, it's quite certain that I would prefer you have more freedoms than you'd prefer I have.
    “Offing those rich pigs with their own forks and knives, and then eating a meal in the same room, far out! The Weathermen dig Charles Manson.”-- Bernadine Dohrn

  2. #302
    Sage

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    Re: Do libertarians inadvertently enable fascism?

    Such a boast is meaningless beyond belief. It means nothing. It is simply you grabbing a big gold banner with FREEDOM emblazoned across it and leading the parade down the street. By itself - the word, and your banner, is meaningless.
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

  3. #303
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    Re: Do libertarians inadvertently enable fascism?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Such a boast is meaningless beyond belief. It means nothing. It is simply you grabbing a big gold banner with FREEDOM emblazoned across it and leading the parade down the street. By itself - the word, and your banner, is meaningless.
    I'm very, very sorry that someone who has grown up among the blessings of freedom finds it to be a "hollow" and "meaningless" word. I really, truly am.
    “Offing those rich pigs with their own forks and knives, and then eating a meal in the same room, far out! The Weathermen dig Charles Manson.”-- Bernadine Dohrn

  4. #304
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    Re: Do libertarians inadvertently enable fascism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Demon of Light View Post
    Do you really not get it? Separating corporate power from state power is like trying to pull oxygen out of water with your bare hands. Are you going to ban people in a corporation from talking to politicians? Will you ban wealthy people from holding public office? How about preventing people formerly in public office from becoming businessmen?
    OF COURSE NOT! I said let's propose a second Bill of Rights, NOT violate the first bill of rights. I have no intention of limiting a person's (whether that person is an average or a corporatist) ability to hold public office, or petition the government, or contribute money to a campaign. Those rights are protected by the first ten amendments of the constitution. However, setting up a second Bill of Rights that prohibits the things I mentioned above (which ultimately privileges one group of individuals over another) is plausible.

  5. #305
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    Re: Do libertarians inadvertently enable fascism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    I'm very, very sorry that someone who has grown up among the blessings of freedom finds it to be a "hollow" and "meaningless" word. I really, truly am.
    You totally miss the point. FREEDOM or LIBERTY is an abstract term which means nothing by itself divorced from the real society we live in. It cannot be discussed in any sort of real way as a factor in the lives of real people unless it is given context.
    __________________________________________________ _
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  6. #306
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    Re: Do libertarians inadvertently enable fascism?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    You totally miss the point. FREEDOM or LIBERTY is an abstract term which means nothing by itself divorced from the real society we live in. It cannot be discussed in any sort of real way as a factor in the lives of real people unless it is given context.
    No, I don't miss anything. Not even the way some have to twist and knot concepts into declared "meaninglessness" in order to justify trampling over them.

    If you're happy in a gilded cage, that's fine. You're not alone.
    “Offing those rich pigs with their own forks and knives, and then eating a meal in the same room, far out! The Weathermen dig Charles Manson.”-- Bernadine Dohrn

  7. #307
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    Re: Do libertarians inadvertently enable fascism?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    You totally miss the point. FREEDOM or LIBERTY is an abstract term which means nothing by itself divorced from the real society we live in. It cannot be discussed in any sort of real way as a factor in the lives of real people unless it is given context.
    How about, LIVE and LET LIVE? How about the concept of empowering individuals through the legalization of personal freedom? Freedom to prosper as well as the freedom to fail. Individuals must be free to live out their own lives, as they see fit...SO LONG AS their actions do not violate the rights of others. Is that enough context for you?

  8. #308
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    Re: Do libertarians inadvertently enable fascism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    No, I don't miss anything. Not even the way some have to twist and knot concepts into declared "meaninglessness" in order to justify trampling over them.

    If you're happy in a gilded cage, that's fine. You're not alone.
    Why do you find it necessary to take what I have written and pervert it into a Frankenstein monster version of what I actually said? Why can't you deal with what i wrote instead of what you have wished I had written so you can give some glibertarian response to it?
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

  9. #309
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    Re: Do libertarians inadvertently enable fascism?

    Quote Originally Posted by ElijahGalt View Post
    OF COURSE NOT!
    Then you will never be able to separate them, though it is largely futile either way.
    "For what is Evil but Good-tortured by its own hunger and thirst?"
    - Khalil Gibran

  10. #310
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    Re: Do libertarians inadvertently enable fascism?

    Quote Originally Posted by ElijahGalt View Post
    How about, LIVE and LET LIVE? How about the concept of empowering individuals through the legalization of personal freedom? Freedom to prosper as well as the freedom to fail. Individuals must be free to live out their own lives, as they see fit...SO LONG AS their actions do not violate the rights of others. Is that enough context for you?
    You should really find some place where you can go and do just that.
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

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