View Poll Results: Do libertarians inadvertently enable fascism?

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Thread: Do libertarians inadvertently enable fascism?

  1. #11
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    Re: Do libertarians inadvertently enable fascism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Troubadour View Post
    Do libertarians inadvertently enable fascism by making institutions weak and vulnerable to private violence?
    Ahh I see, meaning with weak institutions strongarms are more likely to take over.

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    Re: Do libertarians inadvertently enable fascism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Troubadour View Post
    Do libertarians inadvertently enable fascism by making institutions weak and vulnerable to private violence?
    Does Troubadour inadvertently enable stupidity by continually making silly and absurd libertarian attack threads?
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    Re: Do libertarians inadvertently enable fascism?

    Fascism? No.

    De facto oligarchy? Yes.

    Italy and Mexico would be examples.
    Last edited by Morality Games; 11-03-10 at 06:30 PM.
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    Re: Do libertarians inadvertently enable fascism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Morality Games View Post
    Fascism? No.

    De facto oligarchy? Yes.

    Italy and Mexico would be examples.
    De facto oligarchy is what we have now.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    Re: Do libertarians inadvertently enable fascism?

    Obviously, libertarian philosophy is very far from facism. Maybe you could even say if more people were libertarians, that would make facism less likely.

    But I do see a problem, that's not resulting from philosophical tenets of libertarianism, but a side effect of the implementation of such ideals: When democracy and public policy (including democratic elections, individual and pluralist participation and according collective action) is pushed back in favor of markets and mere individualism, you feel more and more people falling off the train: Those who are disadvantaged by the markets, the poor and less wealthy. The side effects of free markets are extreme material inequalities.

    The more you cut safety nets that save those people from the worst excesses of the market, the more prone they become for fascist or other kinds of populist and demagogic paroles. It's "voice or exit", and when you are too poor for either, you revolt. When you have nothing to lose except your chains, you are ready to revolt. And you are ready to follow demagogues.

    Libertarian principles put to action that cause an increase of inequality, and which lowers the power of democracy, will cause the free, republican system to lose legitimacy and support. People who are kept down materially and denied to make a difference with their voice, because the markets dictate everything, are no longer ready to support this system. And when it goes too far, you will find too many people ready to use violence to replace it with another kind of system, even if the alternatives are just illusions.

    Social welfare nets to prevent the worst excesses of the markets is the only thing why so many people still support free markets at all. Take that away, and you will not find anybody anymore supporting free markets, except the few rich benefactors.

    Decreasing democracy and unleashing markets are the safest way to create a mob of underclass people willing to revolt, susceptible for any demagoguery that promises betterment. Could be fascism, could be communism, could be anything else.
    Last edited by German guy; 11-03-10 at 06:45 PM.
    "Not learning from mistakes is worse than committing mistakes. When you don't allow yourself to make mistakes, it is hard to be tolerant of others and it does not allow even God to be merciful."

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    Re: Do libertarians inadvertently enable fascism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    De facto oligarchy is what we have now.
    Popular democracy is what we have now. Although there is a plutocratic current, its power is transitory.
    Last edited by Morality Games; 11-03-10 at 06:46 PM.
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    Re: Do libertarians inadvertently enable fascism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Morality Games View Post
    Popular democracy is what we have now. Although there is a plutocratic current, its power is transitory.
    Yet the party structure is entrenched. Individuals come and go, but the Republocrats forever remain in power. Coupled with the corporate capitalism system we have currently going, we are seeing the emergence of a new aristocracy.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    Re: Do libertarians inadvertently enable fascism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Yet the party structure is entrenched. Individuals come and go, but the Republocrats forever remain in power. Coupled with the corporate capitalism system we have currently going, we are seeing the emergence of a new aristocracy.
    And the more government is sold out to the markets, the stronger this aristocracy becomes.
    "Not learning from mistakes is worse than committing mistakes. When you don't allow yourself to make mistakes, it is hard to be tolerant of others and it does not allow even God to be merciful."

  9. #19
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    Re: Do libertarians inadvertently enable fascism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Yet the party structure is entrenched. Individuals come and go, but the Republocrats forever remain in power. Coupled with the corporate capitalism system we have currently going, we are seeing the emergence of a new aristocracy.
    Plutocracy. Aristocrat implies a person has gained their power because of an ancestor's valor on the battlefield or through some notable act of public service, and that they are entitled to the position because abilities are passed long through lineages. The merchant equivalent is plutocrat. Both are weak forms of meritocratic selection, which is, rule of the most skilled.

    Weakening the government doesn't stop plutocracy. It requires informed and vigorous control on the part of the people, or representatives who genuinely care about the people, to keep the government effective, but the government must be strong.
    Last edited by Morality Games; 11-03-10 at 06:59 PM.
    If you notice something good in yourself, give credit to God, not to yourself, but be certain the evil you commit is always your own and yours to acknowledge.

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    Re: Do libertarians inadvertently enable fascism?

    Quote Originally Posted by German guy View Post
    And the more government is sold out to the markets, the stronger this aristocracy becomes.
    Indeed. But people seem to want to pin some of these outcomes on libertarian political philosophy. However it appears without the induction of libertarian values into the system. In fact, adopting some of the core libertarian values can help to fight this effect. All government will trend towards tyranny if not carefully watched and constrained. At the base of libertarian political theory is a belief in some form of minarchism. That is to say an acknowledgment that government is in some form necessary, but attempts should be made to watch and control it so that it cannot grow too far and begin to act against our rights and liberties.

    You can get further in depth with the varying degrees of government involvement called for under libertarian theory, but at the heart is the following. The results of oligarchy and the rise of the aristocracy are not events isolated to the libertarian political platform.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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