View Poll Results: Do libertarians inadvertently enable fascism?

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Thread: Do libertarians inadvertently enable fascism?

  1. #161
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    Re: Do libertarians inadvertently enable fascism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Patria Antiqua View Post
    It's simple, really.

    Fascists know that the false messiah of economic liberty will lead to a corporatized America that will line the pockets of the elite while exploiting the plebes. Libertarian and fascist ideals both lead to the same end: the proletariat slaving away for the good of hoi oligoi, i.e. our corporate overlords while calling it labor for the "common good."

    All the fascist has to do is conceal his desire to rule people in the moral sphere as well, and BAM, he can insidiously effect policies designed to bring about a fascist America. The path is different, but the destination is the same.
    Translation: Government overlords > Corporate overlords.

  2. #162
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    Re: Do libertarians inadvertently enable fascism?

    There is much wisdom in the post of Partia Antiqua. The excellent part is this

    Libertarian and fascist ideals both lead to the same end: the proletariat slaving away for the good of hoi oligoi, i.e. our corporate overlords while calling it labor for the "common good."
    This is something that the average believer in libertarianism probably does not comprehend. Ideology be damned. Hypotheticals be damned. This is about the inevitable results of the way a certainly belief system will impose on society. And Antiqua is wise enough to see this.

    Decreasing government to the level that is advocated by many libertarians will only embolden corporations and the corporatists who serve and enable them. The losers will be average working people whose income will continue to shrink compared to the rich and whose rights will be slowly eroded over time until we are all on The Road To Serfdom.
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  3. #163
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    Re: Do libertarians inadvertently enable fascism?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    There is much wisdom in the post of Partia Antiqua. The excellent part is this



    This is something that the average believer in libertarianism probably does not comprehend. Ideology be damned. Hypotheticals be damned. This is about the inevitable results of the way a certainly belief system will impose on society. And Antiqua is wise enough to see this.

    Decreasing government to the level that is advocated by many libertarians will only embolden corporations and the corporatists who serve and enable them. The losers will be average working people whose income will continue to shrink compared to the rich and whose rights will be slowly eroded over time until we are all on The Road To Serfdom.
    How the hell does a corporation take away your rights without the use of government?

  4. #164
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    Re: Do libertarians inadvertently enable fascism?

    Here are but a few of the examples of damage done to America by the new corporate order.

    Creating industry cabals thus negating any free choice the consumer has except to pay what is demanded.
    By imposing restrictions on political activity negating ones rights to participate in the democratic process.
    Buying elections and politicians with their unreported monies negating the will of the average person and weakening the process that is central and sacred to Americans.
    By polluting the air , land and water negating my right to life itself.
    By getting those politicians who they have purchased to adopt laws and policies which injure Americans, which weaken their rights and which further us down the road to becoming a two class society.
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  5. #165
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    rolleyes Re: Do libertarians inadvertently enable fascism?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Here are but a few of the examples of damage done to America by the new corporate order.

    Creating industry cabals thus negating any free choice the consumer has except to pay what is demanded.
    By imposing restrictions on political activity negating ones rights to participate in the democratic process.
    Buying elections and politicians with their unreported monies negating the will of the average person and weakening the process that is central and sacred to Americans.
    By polluting the air , land and water negating my right to life itself.
    By getting those politicians who they have purchased to adopt laws and policies which injure Americans, which weaken their rights and which further us down the road to becoming a two class society.
    Non-responsive answer.* All but one of those involves government. Further, the "new corporate order" is something for which you have to thank your pals in the Democratic Party. They and the Republicans got us to this "new corporate order" you describe.

    Try again. Please do not hesitate to let me know if I need to use smaller words so that you might better understand the question.





    *In simple terms, the answer didn't address the question.
    Last edited by Coronado; 11-09-10 at 03:30 PM.

  6. #166
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    Re: Do libertarians inadvertently enable fascism?

    from coronado

    All but one of those involves government.
    So what? that is not and never has been the issue. The issue is what corporations are doing to harm America and the American people.




    Lets look at that list

    Creating industry cabals thus negating any free choice the consumer has except to pay what is demanded.
    That is not done by government. It is done by corporations seeking to dominate and control a market.


    By imposing restrictions on political activity negating ones rights to participate in the democratic process.
    That is not done by government. It is done by corporations and employers.

    Buying elections and politicians with their unreported monies negating the will of the average person and weakening the process that is central and sacred to Americans.
    That is not done by government. It is done by those who serve the corporatists interests.

    By polluting the air , land and water negating my right to life itself.
    That is not done by government. It is done by the polluters/corporations themselves.

    By getting those politicians who they have purchased to adopt laws and policies which injure Americans, which weaken their rights and which further us down the road to becoming a two class society.
    That starts with the corporations and the lobbyists who serve their interests.

    and Coronado...

    Please do not hesitate to let me know if I need to use smaller words so that you might better understand the question.
    You really do not need to use this tone. If you fail to express yourself clearly, I will be sure to let you know. Other than that happening, you can be sure that I am keeping up.
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  7. #167
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    Re: Do libertarians inadvertently enable fascism?

    There is always going to be someone who wants more power and not everyone is going to stand up to those people. Libertarianism might not enable government fascism but it would certainly enable warlordism through decentralization. It is more practical to have one central government overlooking several smaller, relatively autonomous prefectures than it is to reduce government to the point that it is impotent in preventing sectarian violence and power grabs.

    Libertarianism would require a change in the culture of responsibility and values of governance. People would have to be pro-active all the time and frankly I don't think it could happen. Even before modern statism, people were still just trying to live their lives day to day. It's a reality that most people are not politically conscious to the levels that would be required for a libertarian society to have long term potential.

  8. #168
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    Re: Do libertarians inadvertently enable fascism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Orion View Post
    There is always going to be someone who wants more power and not everyone is going to stand up to those people. Libertarianism might not enable government fascism but it would certainly enable warlordism through decentralization. It is more practical to have one central government overlooking several smaller, relatively autonomous prefectures than it is to reduce government to the point that it is impotent in preventing sectarian violence and power grabs.

    Libertarianism would require a change in the culture of responsibility and values of governance. People would have to be pro-active all the time and frankly I don't think it could happen. Even before modern statism, people were still just trying to live their lives day to day. It's a reality that most people are not politically conscious to the levels that would be required for a libertarian society to have long term potential.


    Warlordism?


    Seriously you all need to figure out that Libertarianism =/= anarchism. /facepalm
    Let evil swiftly befall those who have wrongly condemned us

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    Re: Do libertarians inadvertently enable fascism?

    Has libertarianism ever been tried/implemented anywhere? is it one of those 'not really' things... like... communism?

  10. #170
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    Re: Do libertarians inadvertently enable fascism?

    Quote Originally Posted by SE102 View Post
    Has libertarianism ever been tried/implemented anywhere? is it one of those 'not really' things... like... communism?

    1776










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