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Can government create jobs?

Is government capable of creating jobs?

  • Total voters
    42
Jucon said:
What say you?
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Of course the government can create jobs. That said they can also destroy jobs by allowing and encouraging outsourcing(which is the most unpatriotic thing someone in office can do).
 
JohnWOlin said:
What are you talking about? How's Mordor this time of year?
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Not sure, I live far away next to the Shire. It is a happy place. I assume that is a reference to New Zealand and not my mind...?

You said that the government created the job of being in a military. Well, military jobs were created thousands of years ago by some random cave man in some random tribe in some random part of the world, not in 2010 by the US Government.

Originally Posted by Jucon
I'm not sure I understand you.

Capital is a major part of creating jobs. And government can provide capital to businesses.
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Capital and Creating are two separate things...
 
Bodhisattva said:
Not sure, I live far away next to the Shire. It is a happy place. I assume that is a reference to New Zealand and not my mind...?

You said that the government created the job of being in a military. Well, military jobs were created thousands of years ago by some random cave man in some random tribe in some random part of the world, not in 2010 by the US Government.
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Are you saying "creating" as in "creating a new type of position"?
 
A government-created job is simply another conduit for wealth transfer, an expansion of the welfare state. Purchasing labor for which there is no demand is indistinguishable in practice to buying up crops for which there is no demand. These are subsidies that squander resources (which are of course scarce) and reduce prosperity.

You're using the word job, but a government-created job is an entirely different thing than a job created by demand for services in the market.
 
pbrauer said:
Of course government can create jobs. The interstate highway system during the Eisenhower admin., space travel - the moon, the internet, atomic energy, military industrial complex, etc. etc.
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Most of which you probably don't support, since they aren't money give-aways to the poor.
 
pendulum_jaw said:
A government-created job is simply another conduit for wealth transfer, an expansion of the welfare state.
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But... they're working for the money.

Purchasing labor for which there is no demand is indistinguishable in practice to buying up crops for which there is no demand. These are subsidies that squander resources (which are of course scarce) and reduce prosperity.
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You function off of the assumption that there is no demand for what the government does. That is... 'dumb'.
 
SE102 said:
But... they're working for the money.
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What's your point? If the state pays you $200 a day to dig holes in your back yard and fill them back up again you're "working for the money", but it's still welfare. Nobody in the market would pay you for that particular service.


SE102 said:
You function off of the assumption that there is no demand for what the government does. That is... 'dumb'.
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This is a straw man. Show me where I claimed something as sweeping as "there is no demand for what the government does". If the government is buying up surplus corn from farmers in Nebraska that action ipso facto demonstrates a lack of demand for the crop product in the market.
 
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American said:
Most of which you probably don't support, since they aren't money give-aways to the poor.
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How's the view from up there on your horse? :sword:
 
pendulum_jaw said:
What's your point? If the state pays you $200 a day to dig holes in your back yard and fill them back up again you're "working for the money", but it's still welfare. Nobody in the market would pay you for that particular service.




This is a straw man. Show me where I claimed something as sweeping as "there is no demand for what the government does". If the government is buying up surplus corn from farmers in Nebraska that action ipso facto demonstrates a lack of demand for the crop product in the market.
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Umm... I guess you don't remember writing about the government digging and refilling holes in your backyard. You know. The one in the very post youre self refuting in atm.

A government-created job is simply another conduit for wealth transfer, an expansion of the welfare state. Purchasing labor for which there is no demand is indistinguishable in practice to buying up crops for which there is no demand. These are subsidies that squander resources (which are of course scarce) and reduce prosperity.

You're using the word job, but a government-created job is an entirely different thing than a job created by demand for services in the market.
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Maybe only when the government creates a job does it mean that the services it renders are without value. However I dont understand how the govenrment gets anything done without employing someone to do it.
 
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Just wanted to note, one cannot dig a hole to fill another because the hole created will be larger than the original; it's not an even exchange.

"Digging a hole to fill another" is not about wasting time or standing still, it's about moving backwards.




.02
 
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American said:
Most of which you probably don't support, since they aren't money give-aways to the poor.
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LOL - yeah - them damned poor people and their use of atomic energy!

Curses!
 
ecofarm said:
Just wanted to note, one cannot dig a hole to fill another because the hole created will be larger than the original; it's not an even exchange.

"Digging a hole to fill another" is not about wasting time or standing still, it's about moving backwards.




.02
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Is volume not constant, or something? What am I missing? You dig a hole and take out X amount of dirt and then dig a second hole and take out X amount of dirt to fill into the first hole... how is the second hole larger than the first?
 
Bodhisattva said:
Is volume not constant, or something? What am I missing? You dig a hole and take out X amount of dirt and then dig a second hole and take out X amount of dirt to fill into the first hole... how is the second hole larger than the first?
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no, it's not a constant (utilizing the metaphor); because the multiplier is actually less than 1.0; so, in this case, you actually lose 20% of your dirt somewhere in the transfer by putting it into a hole less efficiently than you took it out.
 
spud_meister said:
Tell me this, would more jobs exist in an anarchist society or a governed society?
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in an anarchist society, since everyone would be self-sustaining. mind you, a lot of jobs would be "thief", "farmer", and "kills other people".

however, you are deliberately setting up a strawman. creating the conditions for economic growth is not the same thing as creating jobs. we are willing to accept some economic destruction (spending on the police, military, etc) in order to create the conditions that allow other growth to go forward. but it costs the government more to hire, train, and retain a police officer than it would for private industry to hire someone to perform a similar job; hence, the government must draw out more money from that private sector. Government destroys (say) 1.2 security jobs in the private sector to create a policeman; but without police (given human nature) we wouldn't have enforcement of contract and property rights, which is the necessary condition for growth in the first place.

to turn your model above back on you; if the government can create wealth by spending, why doesn't it just hire every unemployed person and pay them 1 Billion Dollars a year?
 
SE102 said:
Umm... I guess you don't remember writing about the government digging and refilling holes in your backyard. You know. The one in the very post youre self refuting in atm.
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Not only do you have some reading comprehension issues here, but you're focusing on minutiae and ignoring the main points.. It also seems that you don't really understand what the basic economic concept of demand is.


SE102 said:
Maybe only when the government creates a job does it mean that the services it renders are without value. However I dont understand how the govenrment gets anything done without employing someone to do it.
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What is your point, man?
 
The Apollo project, which returned to Earth a few hundred kilos of the moon, would never have been accomplished by private enterprise. The goal set by President Kennedy stimulated the development of new technologies, among them the microprocessor. Bill Gates and others owe their fortunes to the taxpayers who footed the bill.
Bumpy
 
Bumpy Knight said:
The Apollo project, which returned to Earth a few hundred kilos of the moon, would never have been accomplished by private enterprise. The goal set by President Kennedy stimulated the development of new technologies, among them the microprocessor. Bill Gates and others owe their fortunes to the taxpayers who footed the bill.
Bumpy
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a single example of a government program that (at great cost) succesfully innovated and produced advances which did have parallel research lines in the private industry does not overturn the model. innovation and growth comes from the market, not government projects
 
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