View Poll Results: Does Society Act?

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  • Yes

    6 37.50%
  • No

    5 31.25%
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Thread: Does Society Act?

  1. #41
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    Re: Does Society Act?

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    This does not change the fact that the individual precedes society. Individuals exist without society, by your own admission, but society cannot exist without individuals. If individuals are not acting, then there is no possible way for society to act. The action, then, lies with the individual and not with society.
    My last remark on this thread is to be careful what you deduce from metaphysics. Further debate would be sophistry.
    If you notice something good in yourself, give credit to God, not to yourself, but be certain the evil you commit is always your own and yours to acknowledge.

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  2. #42
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    Re: Does Society Act?

    Any group can act as a collection of individuals. Companies act, society acts, churches act, etc.

  3. #43
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    Re: Does Society Act?

    Quote Originally Posted by Khayembii Communique View Post
    Why don't you just get down to the krux of the issue, phatty, and claim that society doesn't exist, quote Thatcher, and then proclaim victory?
    ahh you make me laugh.

  4. #44
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    Re: Does Society Act?

    What is society but a group of individuals? In that respect then, society is just an ideological construct, since the initiation of action lies with the individuals. Studying society is worthless as it does not exist.
    What are individuals but an atom of society? In that respect, then, the individual is just an ideological construct, since the individual is derived from its position in society. Studying the individual is worthless as it does not exist.
    "I do not claim that every incident in the history of empire can be explained in directly economic terms. Economic interests are filtered through a political process, policies are implemented by a complex state apparatus, and the whole system generates its own momentum."

  5. #45
    Sporadic insanity normal.


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    Re: Does Society Act?

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    But you can't say that the group is acting then, just the individuals.
    Yes I can.

    Both the individuals AND the group are acting.

    People don't act the same when they are alone as when they know other people will observe their actions.

    Thus, actions taken by the individual are influenced by other individuals - And this, you see, is what we call society.
    Education.

    Sometimes I think we're alone. Sometimes I think we're not. In either case, the thought is staggering. ~ R. Buckminster Fuller

  6. #46
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    Re: Does Society Act?

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    Any group can act as a collection of individuals. Companies act, society acts, churches act, etc.
    When a church acts, does every member of the church necessarily agree? And doesn't it really mean that certain individuals (such as the priest) are acting?

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

  7. #47
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    Re: Does Society Act?

    Quote Originally Posted by Khayembii Communique View Post
    What are individuals but an atom of society? In that respect, then, the individual is just an ideological construct, since the individual is derived from its position in society. Studying the individual is worthless as it does not exist.
    You heard it here first. I, as an individual, do not exist. Amazing.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

  8. #48
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    Re: Does Society Act?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Mark View Post
    Yes I can.

    Both the individuals AND the group are acting.

    People don't act the same when they are alone as when they know other people will observe their actions.

    Thus, actions taken by the individual are influenced by other individuals - And this, you see, is what we call society.
    Individuals influence individuals, but it is the individual who decides, not the group. The individual chooses and acts. The group does not act unless every individual decides to act.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

  9. #49
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    Re: Does Society Act?

    You heard it here first. I, as an individual, do not exist. Amazing.
    Oh come on phatty, you know I was being facetious, and just using your same logical train of thought in the opposite direction to show how absurd your view is.

    It's clear where the disconnect here is. You think that people are 100% completely rational human beings, that are essentially omniscient, and thus every action and belief one holds is based on a rational decision. That would certainly lead to the logical conclusion that society does not exist, if of course it weren't for the fact that it's false.
    Last edited by Khayembii Communique; 11-02-10 at 11:11 PM.
    "I do not claim that every incident in the history of empire can be explained in directly economic terms. Economic interests are filtered through a political process, policies are implemented by a complex state apparatus, and the whole system generates its own momentum."

  10. #50
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    Re: Does Society Act?

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    Individuals influence individuals, but it is the individual who decides, not the group. The individual chooses and acts. The group does not act unless every individual decides to act.
    Well, true.

    It is the influence, peer pressure, and so forth that most people think of when saying "society".

    “Society” is individuals using their influence and/or power to get other individuals to agree with them - or at least, go along with their plan(s).

    Sometimes it’s subtle, sometimes overt. Sometimes ancient, sometimes new – but it’s always there.
    Education.

    Sometimes I think we're alone. Sometimes I think we're not. In either case, the thought is staggering. ~ R. Buckminster Fuller

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