View Poll Results: Does Society Act?

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  • Yes

    6 37.50%
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    5 31.25%
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Thread: Does Society Act?

  1. #31
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    Re: Does Society Act?

    Yes, there is peer pressure, but this is due to the sum of individuals acting. And even then, people choose to go with the crowd and fall in with the peer pressure.

    Without individuals, there is no society. Without society there are still individuals.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

  2. #32
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    Re: Does Society Act?

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    Yes, there is peer pressure, but this is due to the sum of individuals acting. And even then, people choose to go with the crowd and fall in with the peer pressure.

    Without individuals, there is no society. Without society there are still individuals.
    In a theoretical "State of Nature." In psycho-biological reality, society is one of the primordial forces that shapes human and cultural evolution. Asserting that individuals exist is trivial when every significant action is based on the presence of the collective. What we speak, what we do, what we think, is influenced by not just other people, but the thought and possibility of other people. Values, beliefs, and actions proceed from communion, not from individual innovation. Even libertarian theories emerged from collective activity and would not have obtained the existence they enjoy otherwise.
    Last edited by Morality Games; 11-01-10 at 03:44 PM.
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  3. #33
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    Re: Does Society Act?

    Quote Originally Posted by Morality Games View Post
    In a theoretical "State of Nature." In psycho-biological reality, society is one of the primordial forces that shapes human and cultural evolution. Asserting that individuals exist is trivial when every significant action is based on the presence of the collective. What we speak, what we do, what we think, is influenced by not just other people, but the thought and possibility of other people. Values, beliefs, and actions proceed from communion, not from individual innovation. Even libertarian theories emerged from collective activity and would not have obtained the existence they enjoy otherwise.
    This does not change the fact that the individual precedes society. Individuals exist without society, by your own admission, but society cannot exist without individuals. If individuals are not acting, then there is no possible way for society to act. The action, then, lies with the individual and not with society.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

  4. #34
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    Re: Does Society Act?

    I just want people to realize that society is just an intellectual construct and that it has no bearing in reality.
    That's quite a silly thing to say.
    "I do not claim that every incident in the history of empire can be explained in directly economic terms. Economic interests are filtered through a political process, policies are implemented by a complex state apparatus, and the whole system generates its own momentum."

  5. #35
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    Re: Does Society Act?

    Quote Originally Posted by Khayembii Communique View Post
    That's quite a silly thing to say.
    So when France invades Italy, the whole of France invades it? It is not just the political leaders, the generals, and the soldiers?

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

  6. #36
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    Re: Does Society Act?

    So when France invades Italy, the whole of France invades it? It is not just the political leaders, the generals, and the soldiers?
    It's silly for the same reason that it's silly to say that numbers "have no basis in reality".
    "I do not claim that every incident in the history of empire can be explained in directly economic terms. Economic interests are filtered through a political process, policies are implemented by a complex state apparatus, and the whole system generates its own momentum."

  7. #37
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    Re: Does Society Act?

    Quote Originally Posted by Khayembii Communique View Post
    It's silly for the same reason that it's silly to say that numbers "have no basis in reality".
    But there is no harm in saying that numbers exist. Plenty of harm comes from saying that society acts because it necessarily ignores the fact that individuals exist.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

  8. #38
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    Re: Does Society Act?

    But there is no harm in saying that numbers exist. Plenty of harm comes from saying that society acts because it necessarily ignores the fact that individuals exist.
    Society exists, then.

    Also, people do act in groups, i.e. socially, so I don't really see what point you're attempting to make with this...
    "I do not claim that every incident in the history of empire can be explained in directly economic terms. Economic interests are filtered through a political process, policies are implemented by a complex state apparatus, and the whole system generates its own momentum."

  9. #39
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    Re: Does Society Act?

    Quote Originally Posted by Khayembii Communique View Post
    Society exists, then.
    What is society but a group of individuals? In that respect then, society is just an ideological construct, since the initiation of action lies with the individuals. Studying society is worthless as it does not exist.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

  10. #40
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    Re: Does Society Act?

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    What is society but a group of individuals? In that respect then, society is just an ideological construct, since the initiation of action lies with the individuals. Studying society is worthless as it does not exist.
    Of course society is a construct. Which of course means it does exist, it is made up of all the people within it that act as individuals or as groups.

    If larger social groups do not exist then the French Army or navy would not exist either
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