• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Federation v Empire

In a war between the Federation and the Empire, who wins?

  • Total voters
    32
The_Patriot said:
There's no evidence that the shields in SW can block transporters since transporter tech doesn't not exist in SW. We have no idea about strength either.
Click to expand...

I don't see why they couldn't block transporters; both shields are known as deflector shields, and their operating features are roughly the same. We don't have anything to show that these shields couldn't block transporters, so this circumstantial evidence is pretty much all we have.
 
Goobieman said:
Well, that being the case, the Feds just need to drop the Imperial shields w/ weapons fire.
Click to expand...

Pretty much, and it becomes a question of whether the Fed's can drop all the Empire ships, and Death Stars before they're over run.

True... but they CAN remain at high warp for at LEAST weeks on end - more than enough time to decide a tactical engagement.
Click to expand...

True, but eventually, they do have to stop, and thats where the Empire's resources come into play. Its like a wing of mig-23's against 4 F-15's who are protecting an AWACS. Eventually, the F-15's get either unlucky, or they call winchester and have to disengage, leaving their AWACS open.
 
Morality Games said:
The Galactic Empire vastly outnumbers the United Federation of Planets. I mean, overwhelmingly outnumbers. In addition, they have the Dark Side of the Force. Emperor Palpatine could just use "Battle Meditation," and win basically any engagement he is presiding over.
Click to expand...

Yes but Data was the height of logic and could whisk away any thought of the force. :2razz:

Really it depends on what universe they are battling in, if in the Star Wars universe, the advantage is real.
 
repeter said:
I don't see why they couldn't block transporters; both shields are known as deflector shields, and their operating features are roughly the same. We don't have anything to show that these shields couldn't block transporters, so this circumstantial evidence is pretty much all we have.
Click to expand...

I'm going to err on the side that says that they do operate differently and do not do the exact same thing.
 
Its outcome is soooooooooo easily decided!

A ship with Laser Cannons and Warp 1 that moves like a aircraft carrier. It has a so-so tractor beam. And I think has a decent force field. The most adventagous thing it DOES have is Darth Vader. That is ONE SHIP. Other ships might have a Sith. They can use the Force but how effectively against 400+ military personnel per Federation ship? OH! It can launch maybe 50 (at most) shuttle-type craft with hardly ANY shields
..
..
VERSUS
..
..
A Ship that has muti-phase phasers AND powerful Photon Torpedoes that can corner like a corvette AND with a Force Field AND heavy shields! Plus it could go to Warp 10 (if need be). It has a VERY powerful tractor beam AND can fire multiple phaser burts at the same TIME! It can scan and target every primary target point on a ship of the Empire and knock them out. PLUS it has a HUGE deflector dish. If that isnt enough a self destruct of a warp core that would turn anything in the surrounding area into bread crumbs! OHHHHHHHHHHHHHH YEAH!!!!!!!!! it has TRANSPORTERS!!!!! :roll:
And that is just ONE SHIP

Anyone who thinks the Empire would survive would be...... wrong.
 
Last edited:
repeter said:
I don't see why they couldn't block transporters; both shields are known as deflector shields, and their operating features are roughly the same. We don't have anything to show that these shields couldn't block transporters, so this circumstantial evidence is pretty much all we have.
Click to expand...
I'd say a shield is a shield and transporters are stopped by shields.
 
repeter said:
Pretty much, and it becomes a question of whether the Fed's can drop all the Empire ships, and Death Stars before they're over run.
Click to expand...
Well, OK - -but if the Imperials cannot shoot at the Fed ships, what's to stop them from doing that?
 
Goobieman said:
Well, OK - -but if the Imperials cannot shoot at the Fed ships, what's to stop them from doing that?
Click to expand...

The massive resources of the Empire. I don't know a whole lot about the speed of ST vs. SW ships, but I know that ST ships can attack during warp. If we assume they travel at the same speed, or even if the ST ships move faster, they'll have to move considerably faster to take out all the Empire ships and Death Stars before the Fed planets get destroyed/glassed.
 
The_Patriot said:
I'm going to err on the side that says that they do operate differently and do not do the exact same thing.
Click to expand...

It hardly matters whether SW shields can stop transporters or not. Transporters are finicky, and can be prevented by a LOT of different stuff. Various forms of radiation, solar flares, dense metal, even thick layers of rock, and oddly enough, telekinetic powers have all been shown to screw up transporters in the past. I guarantee that as soon as the higher-ups in the imperial military realized that transporters were being used against them, they would come up with something that could block the effect. It wouldn't be hard, and it wouldn't take long.
 
repeter said:
I don't know a whole lot about the speed of ST vs. SW ships
Click to expand...

Well, star trek ships are pretty slow, at least in terms of galaxy-spanning travel. If only on-film sources are being used, then there's nothing that directly states 'SW hyperdrives are X fast', but some quotes from the characters allude to the fact that hyperdrive is MUCH faster than warp drive.

SW ships can't attack from hyperdrive the way ST ships can from warp, but being able to move between battles faster will be a big advantage.
 
The Giant Noodle said:
Its outcome is soooooooooo easily decided!

A ship with Laser Cannons and Warp 1 that moves like a aircraft carrier. It has a so-so tractor beam. And I think has a decent force field. The most adventagous thing it DOES have is Darth Vader. That is ONE SHIP. Other ships might have a Sith. They can use the Force but how effectively against 400+ military personnel per Federation ship? OH! It can launch maybe 50 (at most) shuttle-type craft with hardly ANY shields
..
..
VERSUS
..
..
A Ship that has muti-phase phasers AND powerful Photon Torpedoes that can corner like a corvette AND with a Force Field AND heavy shields! Plus it could go to Warp 10 (if need be). It has a VERY powerful tractor beam AND can fire multiple phaser burts at the same TIME! It can scan and target every primary target point on a ship of the Empire and knock them out. PLUS it has a HUGE deflector dish. If that isnt enough a self destruct of a warp core that would turn anything in the surrounding area into bread crumbs! OHHHHHHHHHHHHHH YEAH!!!!!!!!! it has TRANSPORTERS!!!!! :roll:
And that is just ONE SHIP

Anyone who thinks the Empire would survive would be...... wrong.
Click to expand...

The Empire can soak a heavy loss of ships while the Ferengi and Klingon weapons merchants outfit their Imperial cruisers with the latest and greatest tech.
 
molten_dragon said:
Yeah, transporters could be mildly useful, but in the ST series, transporters are blocked way too easily. Even if SW shields couldn't originally prevent transporting onto their ships, you can guarantee that they'd figure out something that would stop it right real quick.
Click to expand...

As an aside: SW's turbo-fan jets only work in space in SW's reality. As soon as most of the ships we see in Episode 6 enter ST's reality they would stall out. So, sure, the Empire would have a lot of ships....at drift.

ST could enter SW's reality no problem, as contra-grav works anywhere.

I would assume that ST's computers wouldn't be so easily hacked by your average astro droid, but maybe R2D2 iz da pimp-daddy hackah yo and shouldn't be discounted so easily.
 
Last edited:
Goobieman said:
Ship-to-ship phaser shots have been deomstrated to be quite effective, even when both ships are moving FTL -- the Fed ships have the fire control necessary to keep the weapon on target long enough to do damage.
If they didn't they'd be useless.
Click to expand...

The firing ship would have moved out of range before effective phaser fire could be placed on target.

You might be able to keep a machine-gun pointed at a target while flying in a supersonic jet, but the jet would move out of the machine-gun's effective range long before you let off enough rounds to do any real damage. Your phaser cannons would need an effective range of several light years, and if you have that range, you wouldn't need warp; just sit back well out of range and snipe the Imperial ships.
 
Last edited:
Wow "Federation and Empire" that is a game that I have not played in years. Used to love the Lyrans.

The older brother...

Federation Space | Image | BoardGameGeek

pic3452_md.jpg
 
Last edited:
repeter said:
IF their weapons can penetrate their shields, which we have yet to see.
Click to expand...

if they don't know they are coming, they probably won't have their shields up.
 
Jerry said:
So a phaser cannon fired from warp in a strafing pattern.....each Imperial cruiser would receive about, what, 1billionth of a second worth of phaser-fire....that wouldn't make a scratch. You would need at least a few seconds of phaser fire to destroy a cruiser, which necessitates a drop from warp.
.
Click to expand...

two words: photon torpedo
 
Redress said:
I forgot about Fed Space till you mentioned it. Great little game. I hated the Lyrans, played the Kzinti.
Click to expand...

Kzinti! I always had the Klingons subjegate them in the first turn or or two (Federation Space.) Had no choice, otherwise they would be a pain the rest of the game, lol. In Federation and Empire you would have been my main target as the Lyrans. You would have had to go down Red!
 
Jerry said:
As an aside: SW's turbo-fan jets only work in space in SW's reality. As soon as most of the ships we see in Episode 6 enter ST's reality they would stall out. So, sure, the Empire would have a lot of ships....at drift.
Click to expand...

What are you talking about? SW ships don't use turbo-fan engines. The only time we saw those was in the pod-racing scenes in Episode I (which coincidentally looks like the coolest sport ever invented).
 
molten_dragon said:
Well, star trek ships are pretty slow, at least in terms of galaxy-spanning travel. If only on-film sources are being used, then there's nothing that directly states 'SW hyperdrives are X fast', but some quotes from the characters allude to the fact that hyperdrive is MUCH faster than warp drive.

SW ships can't attack from hyperdrive the way ST ships can from warp, but being able to move between battles faster will be a big advantage.
Click to expand...

Then its pretty much game over for the Federation. Unless they could keep up with and eliminate Empire shpis before they arrived at their target (presumably a Federation planet), they couldn't hope to take out all the Empire ships before the planet is glassed. And this isn't even considering the use of a Death Star(s). If the Empire wanted, imagine how many Death Stars they could throw at the Fed's with their enormous resources...
 
Last edited:
OscarB63 said:
if they don't know they are coming, they probably won't have their shields up.
Click to expand...

Empire ships have no reason to drop their shields, whereas a Fed ship might drop shields to enable use of the transporter.
 
repeter said:
Empire ships have no reason to drop their shields, whereas a Fed ship might drop shields to enable use of the transporter.
Click to expand...
Unless in or expecting combat, neither ST nor SW ships would operate with their shields up - the power drain is significant over time, and thus burns unnecessary fuel.
 
Jerry said:
The firing ship would have moved out of range before effective phaser fire could be placed on target.
Click to expand...
Not so. There is ample film evdence that shows effective phaser fire from/against FTL targets. ST ships have sufficinet FC to allow this, else the weapons would be useless.
 
repeter said:
Then its pretty much game over for the Federation. Unless they could keep up with and eliminate Empire shpis before they arrived at their target (presumably a Federation planet), they couldn't hope to take out all the Empire ships before the planet is glassed. And this isn't even considering the use of a Death Star(s). If the Empire wanted, imagine how many Death Stars they could throw at the Fed's with their enormous resources...
Click to expand...
Remember: It takes only a small Fed ship a few moments to destroy an entire Imperial world, and the Imperials have no way to defend against it.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom