• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Federation v Empire

In a war between the Federation and the Empire, who wins?


  • Total voters
    32
But they'd have access to captured cloak tech right?

The Federation does use cloaking devices as evidence by Kirk using a Klingon Bird of Prey and stealing a cloaking device in The Enterprise Incident plus the Defiant having one. It wasn't until much later that the Federation signed the Treaty of Algeron that said they wouldn't develop cloaking technology. The treaty doesn't mention that they are prohibited from using it.
 
The Galactic Empire vastly outnumbers the United Federation of Planets. I mean, overwhelmingly outnumbers. In addition, they have the Dark Side of the Force. Emperor Palpatine could just use "Battle Meditation," and win basically any engagement he is presiding over.
 
Last edited:
The Galactic Empire vastly outnumbers the United Federation of Planets. I mean, overwhelmingly outnumbers. In addition, they have the Dark Side of the Force. Emperor Palpatine could just use "Battle Meditation," and win basically any engagement he is presiding over.

Playing devil's advocate, if the Federation ships don't have to exit warp to attack the Empire ships, then it doesn't matter. If, however, the Empire's ships are strong enough to protect against the Federation ships, then it goes to the Empire.

It all comes down to the numbers, which we don't really have clear numbers for.
 
Playing devil's advocate, if the Federation ships don't have to exit warp to attack the Empire ships, then it doesn't matter. If, however, the Empire's ships are strong enough to protect against the Federation ships, then it goes to the Empire.

It all comes down to the numbers, which we don't really have clear numbers for.


numbers don't matter for jack squat. federation ships can attack from warp, the empire would never know when or where they were going to get hit, no cloaking tech required. a couple of galaxy class cruisers could strafe an entire fleet of star destroyers, blow their ass to bits and be long gone before the empire knew what hit them.
 
The Galactic Empire vastly outnumbers the United Federation of Planets. I mean, overwhelmingly outnumbers. In addition, they have the Dark Side of the Force. Emperor Palpatine could just use "Battle Meditation," and win basically any engagement he is presiding over.

The dark side is nothing compared to Wesley's latest science experiment.
 
numbers don't matter for jack squat. federation ships can attack from warp, the empire would never know when or where they were going to get hit, no cloaking tech required. a couple of galaxy class cruisers could strafe an entire fleet of star destroyers, blow their ass to bits and be long gone before the empire knew what hit them.

IF their weapons can penetrate their shields, which we have yet to see.
 
numbers don't matter for jack squat. federation ships can attack from warp, the empire would never know when or where they were going to get hit, no cloaking tech required. a couple of galaxy class cruisers could strafe an entire fleet of star destroyers, blow their ass to bits and be long gone before the empire knew what hit them.

So a phaser cannon fired from warp in a strafing pattern.....each Imperial cruiser would receive about, what, 1billionth of a second worth of phaser-fire....that wouldn't make a scratch. You would need at least a few seconds of phaser fire to destroy a cruiser, which necessitates a drop from warp.

Just because your vessel can fire a weapon while a particular propulsion system is operating doesn't mean the result you want will occur.

Anyway, why go the extremes? Why not just beam an explosive into the cruiser's reactor? K.I.S.S. ftw.
 
Last edited:
So a phaser cannon fired from warp in a strafing pattern.....each Imperial cruiser would receive about, what, 1billionth of a second worth of phaser-fire....that wouldn't make a scratch. You would need at least a few seconds of phaser fire to destroy a cruiser, which necessitates a drop from warp.

Still, if a Fed ship could drop from warp, guns blazing, unless the Empire ship has shields strong enough to defend itself, its screwed. And this, isn't even getting into whether an Empire ship can damage a Fed ship, though we can assume that the Empire would eventually win if ship-to-ship they can match the Federation.
 
Still, if a Fed ship could drop from warp, guns blazing, unless the Empire ship has shields strong enough to defend itself, its screwed. And this, isn't even getting into whether an Empire ship can damage a Fed ship, though we can assume that the Empire would eventually win if ship-to-ship they can match the Federation.

I mean how hard would it be for a runabout to beem bridge crews into space?
 
I mean how hard would it be for a runabout to beem bridge crews into space?

On that note, I think its entirely probably to think that SW shields defend against transporters, and ST transporters only work if they drop their shields. If a ST ship dropped shields to kill one Empire ship, but was killed by a different Empire ship, the Empire would eventually win; they have the advantage in resources.
 
On that note, I think its entirely probably to think that SW shields defend against transporters, and ST transporters only work if they drop their shields. If a ST ship dropped shields to kill one Empire ship, but was killed by a different Empire ship, the Empire would eventually win; they have the advantage in resources.

Hmm you have a point, SW deflectors could deflect the transporter beem.

Very well, then: ST will mass-produce the equivalent of a modern Tomahawk cruise missile with warp-2 engines and anti-matter warheads. The Imperial cruisers won't see them coming and their deflectors will either fail to block the explosion or be neutralized quickly.

The Emperor's only chance is to make the Borg Queen his new apprentice.
 
Last edited:
Hmm you have a point, SW deflectors could deflect the transporter beem.

Very well, then: ST will mass-produce the equivalent of a modern Tomahawk cruise missile with warp-2 engines and anti-matter warheads. The Imperial cruisers won't see them coming and their deflectors will either fail to block the explosion or be neutralized quickly.

The Emperor's only chance is to make the Borg Queen his new apprentice.

Yeah, transporters could be mildly useful, but in the ST series, transporters are blocked way too easily. Even if SW shields couldn't originally prevent transporting onto their ships, you can guarantee that they'd figure out something that would stop it right real quick.
 
Okay, I'll agree to that, but then very few of the numbers bandied about for star trek are primary source either.
Well, those numbers come from one of the many 'technical manuals' that has been released for both franchises over the years (I believe). Some people count those as canon, others don't. It really just depends on what sources you want to allow in the debate.
As a rule, I keep with that I see on film; film is, inarguably, canon.

Weapon power is pretty easy to calculate based on what's seen on-screen though.
Well, OK -- what have you seen, on screen, that looks like 200GT worth of energy discharge - keeping in mind that 50MT is the largest nuclear wepon ever detonated.
 
fedandempirepageimages.png
Are you follower of Steve Cole?
:shock:
 
The Federation does not use cloaking devices. The Klingon's and Romulans do.
They do when someone like JTK gets a hold of one and decides it a good idea.
 
And let's be honest, it's not like the empire didn't have planet-destroying superweapons.
You mean like The Genesis Torpedo?
Who needs a Death Star?
:shrug:
 
So a phaser cannon fired from warp in a strafing pattern.....each Imperial cruiser would receive about, what, 1billionth of a second worth of phaser-fire....that wouldn't make a scratch. You would need at least a few seconds of phaser fire to destroy a cruiser, which necessitates a drop from warp.
Ship-to-ship phaser shots have been deomstrated to be quite effective, even when both ships are moving FTL -- the Fed ships have the fire control necessary to keep the weapon on target long enough to do damage.
If they didn't they'd be useless.
 
On that note, I think its entirely probably to think that SW shields defend against transporters, and ST transporters only work if they drop their shields. If a ST ship dropped shields to kill one Empire ship, but was killed by a different Empire ship, the Empire would eventually win; they have the advantage in resources.
If the Imperial ships cannot shoot at Federation ships moving FTL, the Fed ships dont need to power their shields.
 
If the Imperial ships cannot shoot at Federation ships moving FTL, the Fed ships dont need to power their shields.

The Empire shields still block transporters, and as far as we know, they're as strong as Fed shields. In which case, it comes down to a matter of time until the Empire wins, don't forget that Fed ships cannot stay at warp indefinitely.
 
The Empire shields still block transporters, and as far as we know, they're as strong as Fed shields. In which case, it comes down to a matter of time until the Empire wins, don't forget that Fed ships cannot stay at warp indefinitely.

There's no evidence that the shields in SW can block transporters since transporter tech doesn't not exist in SW. We have no idea about strength either.
 
The Empire shields still block transporters, and as far as we know, they're as strong as Fed shields.
Well, that being the case, the Feds just need to drop the Imperial shields w/ weapons fire.

don't forget that Fed ships cannot stay at warp indefinitely.
True... but they CAN remain at high warp for at LEAST weeks on end - more than enough time to decide a tactical engagement.
 
Back
Top Bottom