View Poll Results: In a war between the Federation and the Empire, who wins?

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  • Empire

    22 46.81%
  • Federation

    25 53.19%
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Thread: Federation v Empire

  1. #381
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    The Mark's Avatar
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    Re: Federation v Empire

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    There’s no proof that they can, which is the point.
    There is proof, however, in E4, E5, E6, that their weapons are light speed at best, and that their fire control cannot see ships moving FTL, much less engage them.
    If SW ships -could- engage ships moving FTL. for example, then the Falcon doesn’t escape on her jump to Alderaan. as the Imperial ships just keep shooting at her and follow her path.

    Yes. The two TOS episodes I cited show this - Balance of Terror, especially
    The photon shot in STTMP does the same.
    If Fed weapons can hit Fed ships in warp, then it would seem at least possible that Imperial ships can hit Fed ships in warp. Especially because there is no indication (as far as I know) that Fed photon torpedoes are FTL in speed (except in that they hit a ship traveling at warp, but the trajectory could have been planned to place the torpedo on target with where the ship would be), and if as you say, one fired from impulse hit a ship in warp...I can see Empire weapons hitting a Fed ship in warp.

    Further, I would argue that the SW FTL travel method is different from the ST FTL travel method - I think the SW FTL method precludes exchanges of fire.

    While the ST FTL method (as demonstrated by your statements) allows it.

    Granted, I think it would be quite hard for the Imperial forces to hit a Fed ship while it was in warp, if for no other reason than the speed of the target.

    But it would still seem possible., as you mention below.

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    Space is huge; small errors in laying a gun add up to big misses in a hurry.
    Any hit in such an attempt would be pure coincidence, especially given the Fed's ability to actually outrun the weapons fire.
    If the Fed vs. Empire conflict was prolonged, I could see the Empire designing a ship class specifically as an "anti-warp-ship" platform.

    Either with insane numbers of guns rapidly firing TL and other bolts, or with guided missile weaponry. Or both.
    Education.

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  2. #382
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    Re: Federation v Empire

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post

    Aside from the fact that you have not shown this to be a standard tactic... in fact, the only even remotely relevant canon shows that they ARE able to coordinate the efforts of at least a squadron in FTL combat against a FTL opponent... they would be CERTAIN to change their supposed 'standard tactic' if it meant they could engage the enemy w/o any chance of taking damage - which it unquestionably does.
    Prove it.
    "Liberty lies in the hearts of men and women; when it dies there, no constitution, no law, no court can save it; no constitution, no law, no court can even do much to help it." - Judge Learned Hand

  3. #383
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    Re: Federation v Empire

    Quote Originally Posted by The Mark View Post



    If the Fed vs. Empire conflict was prolonged, I could see the Empire designing a ship class specifically as an "anti-warp-ship" platform.
    They already have. It's accepted SW canon, it's just not canon according to Goobie, cuz it takes away his one and only talking point.
    "Liberty lies in the hearts of men and women; when it dies there, no constitution, no law, no court can save it; no constitution, no law, no court can even do much to help it." - Judge Learned Hand

  4. #384
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    Re: Federation v Empire

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    There's no evidence to support this.
    If I recall correctly, I believe he's talking about the SSD that lost its bridge and went into an out of control dive into the DS2 after the entire rebel fleet focused fire on it, causing the shields in the bridge area (if I recall, and Imp officer stated something along the lines of "bridge deflectors are down", and the ship captain instructed that they should focus defensive fire to prevent anything from hitting the bridge - "focus all defensive firepower, I don't want anything getting through...Too late!!!" *Boom*) to go down (temporarily, I think), whereupon an out of control A-Wing suicided (unintentionally, I think) into the bridge.

    Why the hell they didn't have a secondary bridge, I can't imagine...but I digress.


    Stupid imperial ship builders, you would think after hundreds of years...

    Damn, I’m a nerd…as if any doubt remained…
    Education.

    Sometimes I think we're alone. Sometimes I think we're not. In either case, the thought is staggering. ~ R. Buckminster Fuller

  5. #385
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    Re: Federation v Empire

    Quote Originally Posted by The Mark View Post
    If I recall correctly, I believe he's talking about the SSD that lost its bridge and went into an out of control dive into the DS2 after the entire rebel fleet focused fire on it, causing the shields in the bridge area (if I recall, and Imp officer stated something along the lines of "bridge deflectors are down", and the ship captain instructed that they should focus defensive fire to prevent anything from hitting the bridge - "focus all defensive firepower, I don't want anything getting through...Too late!!!" *Boom*) to go down (temporarily, I think), whereupon an out of control A-Wing suicided (unintentionally, I think) into the bridge.

    Why the hell they didn't have a secondary bridge, I can't imagine...but I digress.


    Stupid imperial ship builders, you would think after hundreds of years...

    Damn, I’m a nerd…as if any doubt remained…
    I already shot him down using the same argument, including quoting the actual movie script, but he was strangely silent on the matter. In fact, he's fairly silent on anything to which he can't answer, "Nuh uh! Warp Drive!"
    "Liberty lies in the hearts of men and women; when it dies there, no constitution, no law, no court can save it; no constitution, no law, no court can even do much to help it." - Judge Learned Hand

  6. #386
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    Re: Federation v Empire

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    It was a particle deflector shield, of course they couldn't physically get through it. It's the same as when on Hoth, they had to destroy the shield generators before they could launch the full ground invasion of the Rebel fortress.

    I always wondered why they never made a shield generator which was inside the shield it generated.
    You recall incorrectly…

    If memory serves, they launched a ground assault because the Hoth shield generator (which WAS inside the protective field it produced) was powerful enough to preclude a space bombardment to wipe out the rebels, necessitating a ground assault – someone can probably find the exact script conversations between Darth and various Imp officers.
    Last edited by The Mark; 11-03-10 at 11:53 PM.
    Education.

    Sometimes I think we're alone. Sometimes I think we're not. In either case, the thought is staggering. ~ R. Buckminster Fuller

  7. #387
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    Re: Federation v Empire

    Quote Originally Posted by theangryamerican View Post
    executing hard turns through thousands of tightly grouped Imperial battle formations
    hypocritical to ask goobie to prove that the Federation can do something against a formation that you haven't proven the Empire uses.
    The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.

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  8. #388
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    Re: Federation v Empire

    I like how heated and serious a debate about a fictional battle between fictional governments has become.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

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  9. #389
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    Re: Federation v Empire

    Quote Originally Posted by theangryamerican View Post
    They already have. It's accepted SW canon, it's just not canon according to Goobie, cuz it takes away his one and only talking point.
    it's a BS capability/ship that some goober pulled out of his ass to use in discussions like this and all the rest of the SW is better dweebs agreed it was canon. which is why I continue to insist that if it didn't happen on screen or could be logically deduced/implied from events that happened on screen, it doesn't count.
    The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.

    An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.

  10. #390
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    Re: Federation v Empire

    Quote Originally Posted by OscarB63 View Post
    hypocritical to ask goobie to prove that the Federation can do something against a formation that you haven't proven the Empire uses.
    I already gave you examples. Everytime you see more than one Imperial ship they are in relatively close proximity.
    "Liberty lies in the hearts of men and women; when it dies there, no constitution, no law, no court can save it; no constitution, no law, no court can even do much to help it." - Judge Learned Hand

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