View Poll Results: In a war between the Federation and the Empire, who wins?

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  • Empire

    22 46.81%
  • Federation

    25 53.19%
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Thread: Federation v Empire

  1. #351
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    Re: Federation v Empire

    Quote Originally Posted by theangryamerican View Post
    Just tell me what evidence you have that an ISD can't hit a target in warp.
    just tell ME what evidence you have that it can. it's not our job to disprove abilitites you make up for the ISD
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  2. #352
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    Re: Federation v Empire

    Quote Originally Posted by The Mark View Post
    Actually, I would like to comment on this discussion.
    There is no proof that Empire ships cannot hit Fed ships while the Fed ships are in the ST universes version of FTL travel - there is only proof that Empire ships cannot hit other SW universe ships while they are in the SW universes version of FTL travel.
    Therr's no proof that they can, which is the point.
    There is proof, however, in E4, E5, E6, that their weapons are light speed at best, and that their fire control cannot see ships moving FTL, much less engage them.
    If SW ships -could- engage ships moving FTL. for example, then the Falcon doesnt escape on her jump to Alderaan. as the Imperial ships just keep shooting at her and follow her path.

    Are there any instances of ST ships at impulse firing at and hitting ST ships that were in warp?
    Yes. The two TOS episodes I cited show this - Balance of Terror, especially
    The photon shot in STTMP does the same.

    If so, one would have to assume that Empire ships would have a chance at hitting ST ships in warp, if only by filling the space in front of the ST ships with TL fire and such.
    Space is huge; small errors in laying a gun add up to big misses in a hurry.
    Any hit in such an attempt would be pure coincidence, especially given the Fed's ability to actually outrun the weapons fire.

  3. #353
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    Re: Federation v Empire

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    Therr's no proof that they can, which is the point.
    There is proof, however, in E4, E5, E6, that their weapons are light speed at best, and that their fire control cannot see ships moving FTL, much less engage them.
    If SW ships -could- engage ships moving FTL. for example, then the Falcon doesnt escape on her jump to Alderaan. as the Imperial ships just keep shooting at her and follow her path.
    Han stated that he still had to outrun the ISD's after going into hyperspace, this would seem to indicate that there is some sort of tracking available, if a bucket like Falcon could do it.
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  4. #354
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    Re: Federation v Empire

    As to the shield controversy

    Death Star - Wookieepedia, the Star Wars Wiki

    Both Death Stars were defended by hundreds of shield projectors, and thousands of turbolasers, ion cannons and laser cannons. The first one contained a complement of seven to nine thousand TIE fighters, along with tens of thousands of support craft, bombers, and gunships. Massive docking bays provided several Star Destroyers with dry docks, and more than a million Imperial personnel were on board both battle stations.
    Design flaws:

    One drawback of the original design was the power systems. Twenty-four hours were required to fully charge the laser. However, even low power shots were capable of massive destruction on a planetary scale. The second Death Star had redesigned systems and was capable of firing the superlaser once every three minutes. It also had improved targeting computers, allowing it to fire the weapon accurately at capital ships.

    There were small gaps in the shields of the first Death Star; the Empire believed that this was harmless since only small ships could wiggle through the gaps. The shields of the second Death Star would have had no such gaps.

    The second Death Star also corrected several other flaws in the original design. The two-meter exhaust vent that doomed the first station was replaced with millions of millimeter wide tubes, each designed to seal if excess energy was detected. The second station also boasted far more turbolaser batteries with redesigned targeting systems, allowing them to target starfighters more easily. The greatest concentration of turbolasers was located near the Emperor's throne tower.
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  5. #355
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    Re: Federation v Empire

    Quote Originally Posted by theangryamerican View Post
    Han stated that he still had to outrun the ISD's after going into hyperspace, this would seem to indicate that there is some sort of tracking available, if a bucket like Falcon could do it.
    which is countered by the fact that the DS didn't know they were inbound. If the ISD could track them, surely they would've followed them or at the very least let the DS know the falcon was coming.
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  6. #356
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    Re: Federation v Empire

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    You mean in E4? IIRC, the alliance only had a small group of fighters and no capital ships in the system. Its not hard to imagine -them- not being able to take on the protection of the main gun. Fed starships are another matter.
    In E6 the capital ships could not close with DS2 because it was protected by the ground-generated shield.
    Actually, in E6, the ground-based shield was taken down before any of the ships, even the fighters, could attack it. It was only the first death star that had shields that fighters could get through but not capital ships.

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    The Imperials can't shoot the FTL Fed ships.
    I covered this a few posts ago. There's no evidence to prove that the imperials couldn't shoot fed ships at warp speeds, and the feds ability to fight consistently at warp speeds has not been proven. I understand why you are relying on this tactic so heavily (hell, it's really the only advantage the feds have), but its viability is shaky at best.

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    Why? What's the difference? If they coud jump in "close to the planet", denoting an ability to jum in wherever and whenever, why did they have to orbit the planet to get the moon?
    The scenes in E6 amd (especially) imply that the DS's main gun, while powerful, it very short ranged.
    Remember that imperial hyperdrives don't work well in gravity wells. They probably didn't know where in its orbit the moon was, so they just had to jump as close to the planet as they could get and orbit it at sublight speeds until they got LoS on the moon to shoot at it. They most likely could have solved the problem had they sent scouts in first to determine more precisely where the moon was. The earth is far enough from the sun's gravity well that, assuming they knew its position accurately, they could jump in close enough to destroy it without having to do any sublight maneuvering.
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  7. #357
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    Re: Federation v Empire

    Quote Originally Posted by theangryamerican View Post
    Further, the first Death Star could not possibly have fired its main gun at ships and still been able to shoot at Alderaan. The first superlaser had a very long cycling time in order to fire at full power. This was corrected for the second Death Star, which you see firing much faster.
    This proves nothing - killing ships takes -several- orders of magnitude less power than blowing up earth-size planets; the increased ROF and shorter cycling time doesn't necessarily denote any improvement of the weapon as it can just as easily - and more likely - be explained by firing said weapon at a lower power setting.

    How in ANH did Han know that they had finally lost “those Imperial slugs” if he couldn’t track them in hyperspace?
    BY kowing that the jump was all that was necessary to lose them.
    he certainly didnt show us fis fire control output.

    Apples to oranges. This is not the same in any way. You’re arguing that the Federation would use a tactic which they demonstrably don’t...
    Except that this deomstration doesnt exit...
    Last edited by Goobieman; 11-03-10 at 10:06 PM.

  8. #358
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    Re: Federation v Empire

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    sorry, but i refuse to accept "wookieepedia" as a valid source. any tard can write whatever they want in there.

    as I have said ad nauseum, if it didn't happen on screen (and I'll add) or can't be logically concluded from something that did happen on screen...it don't count
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  9. #359
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    Re: Federation v Empire

    Quote Originally Posted by OscarB63 View Post
    sorry, but i refuse to accept "wookieepedia" as a valid source. any tard can write whatever they want in there.

    as I have said ad nauseum, if it didn't happen on screen (and I'll add) or can't be logically concluded from something that did happen on screen...it don't count
    Which screen? Movie, TV, or computer? What about books? I mean, you can "refuse to accept" whatever you damned well like. But all of the information is referenced by source material from the Star Wars Universe.
    Last edited by Ikari; 11-03-10 at 10:09 PM.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

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  10. #360
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    Re: Federation v Empire

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post

    BY knowing that the jump was all that was necessary to lose them.

    ...
    exactly.....
    The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.

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