View Poll Results: In a war between the Federation and the Empire, who wins?

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  • Empire

    22 46.81%
  • Federation

    25 53.19%
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Thread: Federation v Empire

  1. #341
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    Re: Federation v Empire

    Quote Originally Posted by theangryamerican View Post
    Except at the Battle of Hoth and the Battle of Endor... Remember those?

    Tightly formed battle groups. The reason I said thousands was simply on the scale of the entire Imperial fleet against the entire Federation fleet. Let's not make this overtly complicated, eh?
    I remeber them, but I don't remember THOUSANDS of tight battle formations. at Hoth, the rebels were able to clear a path through using ONE surface based ion cannon. at Endor, I saw at most 100 or so ships. and they definitely weren't in anything resembling tight formations.
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  2. #342
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    Re: Federation v Empire

    Quote Originally Posted by OscarB63 View Post
    on screen:
    empire ships were taken out by asteroid/meteor impacts in Empire Strikes Back. The navigational deflectors on Federation vessels are capable of protecting against this.
    I do recall that at least one of those ships - the really big one - was rendered unconrtollable by a fighter crashing thru its shields and into its bridge.
    Imagine what a salvo of photons could do...

  3. #343
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    Re: Federation v Empire

    Quote Originally Posted by The Mark View Post
    My take on the whole torpedo/exhaust port bit was that the torpedo only needed to enter the top of the shaft, not travel the whole length - that it would set off whatever was being exhausted from the port, and that would follow the shaft down to the reactor.

    Another possibility is that the exhaust shaft was itself shielded in some way that would prevent the torpedo from hitting anything on the way down. I mean, after all, it was an exhaust port from a “hypermatter” reactor, or some such…one would assume that the exhaust would have some unknown properties…

    Speaking of which, according to some analysis I read (it was linked in this thread somewhere), an anti-matter reacton would not provide enough power for the death star’s planet destruction shot – unless it used an amount of anti-matter equivalent in size to the death star itself – or some such.
    Whatever the mechanism -- it worked. 2 proton torpedoes blew up the DS.

  4. #344
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    theangryamerican's Avatar
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    Re: Federation v Empire

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    I've already given examples of canon showing the ability of Fed ships to fight at FTL against bith FTL and sub-light targets, individually and in groups.
    That's all the proof necessary, sparky.
    Nonsense, your proof of isolated incidents doesn't change the vast evidence to the contrary, not to mention that nothing you've referenced is evidence counter to what I'm saying.
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  5. #345
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    Re: Federation v Empire

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    I do recall that at least one of those ships - the really big one - was rendered unconrtollable by a fighter crashing thru its shields and into its bridge.
    Imagine what a salvo of photons could do...
    Your memory is faulty, its shields had been destroyed by concentrated fire from the entire Rebel Fleet and the A-wing got lucky (or was the pilot unlucky? I'm not sure.)
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  6. #346
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    Re: Federation v Empire

    Quote Originally Posted by molten_dragon View Post
    They would have an opportunity to do so, but it seems doubtful that they would be successful. Disabling the main gun could be possible, but based on what we saw in SW, it seems like that isn't too easy. After all, if it was easier to just take out the main gun than destroy the station, the alliance would have done that.
    You mean in E4? IIRC, the alliance only had a small group of fighters and no capital ships in the system. Its not hard to imagine -them- not being able to take on the protection of the main gun. Fed starships are another matter.
    In E6 the capital ships could not close with DS2 because it was protected by the ground-generated shield.

    Keep in mind though that the alliance didn't know that the DS2 could target their ships with the superlaser. They made the assumption that they would need to use fighters without knowing it could do that. So that statement must have been based solely on their heavy ships inability to penetrate its shields.
    I dont recall any such assumption being voiced; I wonder what tis assumption would be based on.
    And, recall, the DS2 didn't have shields at the time.

    The feds can't ignore everything the imps send with it, unless they want their ships to get shot to hell by the support fleet.
    The Imperials can't shoot the FTL Fed ships.

    Part of the reason it took so long to set up the shot in E4 was because they had to orbit the planet to get to the moon that was their target. That wouldn't be an issue with an attack on earth.
    Why? What's the difference? If they coud jump in "close to the planet", denoting an ability to jum in wherever and whenever, why did they have to orbit the planet to get the moon?
    The scenes in E6 amd (especially) imply that the DS's main gun, while powerful, it very short ranged.

  7. #347
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    Re: Federation v Empire

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    I do recall that at least one of those ships - the really big one - was rendered unconrtollable by a fighter crashing thru its shields and into its bridge.
    Imagine what a salvo of photons could do...
    Actually, the shields had already been taken down. And the fighter hitting the bridge was essentially an accident (the fighter itself had been hit and was out of control). The bridge crew was even talking about evening out the shields to compensate at the time they were hit.
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  8. #348
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    Re: Federation v Empire

    Quote Originally Posted by OscarB63 View Post
    doubtful or the emporer wouldn't have phrased it "fully armed and operational" if he was only referring to the cannon. if it was fully armed, it would've been redundant to also say "operational". if the cannon wasn't operational then it wasn't fully armed. the battlestation was fully armed..........AND operational
    No, the Emperor knew of the leaked information. It was a set up by the Empire to draw out the entire Rebel fleet. It's a trap. When he says that to Luke he's telling him that it was a trap, that the Death Star was fully armed and operational. Now those two things talk of two different abilities. Armed refers to the armaments on board. The Death Star was fully armed. It doesn't mean it could use it's main cannon, that's what the operational part was all about. Not only was the Death Star fully armed (I'm not sure what that means in terms of laser cannons...energy sources maybe?) but also that the offensive capabilities of the Death Star were fully operational. Meaning that being fully armed and operational meant they could fire at will. Which he then commands, and which is done, destroying one of the Rebel fleet's capital ships. The Rebels are all surprised by this because their information was that it was not operational at that point.

    Quote Originally Posted by OscarB63 View Post
    exactly and nothing shown on screen indicates that the deathstar had or would have independent shield capability without the generator on the planet.
    The first Death Star had many shield generators, one would assume the 2nd one would too once it was complete
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  9. #349
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    Re: Federation v Empire

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    The Imperials can't shoot the FTL Fed ships.
    Hello, one trick pony. Care to address my argument against this any time soon? No, wait. I won't make you answer the hard questions yet. Just tell me what evidence you have that an ISD can't hit a target in warp.

    Why? What's the difference? If they coud jump in "close to the planet", denoting an ability to jum in wherever and whenever, why did they have to orbit the planet to get the moon?
    The scenes in E6 amd (especially) imply that the DS's main gun, while powerful, it very short ranged.
    They approached the planet from the far side. What should they have done? Jumped through the planet?
    Last edited by theangryamerican; 11-03-10 at 09:53 PM.
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  10. #350
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    Re: Federation v Empire

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    I dont recall any such assumption being voiced; I wonder what tis assumption would be based on.
    And, recall, the DS2 didn't have shields at the time.
    as i recall, the rebels didn't know the Empire was expecting them and were surprised to find out that the shield was still up and they were being jammed. hence the frantic "pulling up" of all the ships on attack runs at the DS.
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