View Poll Results: In a war between the Federation and the Empire, who wins?

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  • Empire

    22 46.81%
  • Federation

    25 53.19%
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Thread: Federation v Empire

  1. #261
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    Re: Federation v Empire

    Quote Originally Posted by Whovian View Post
    Federation shipyards - Memory Alpha, the Star Trek Wiki
    The following is a list of Federation shipyards and maintenance and repair facilities. In addition to the facilities listed here, most larger starbases and outposts are also capable of repairing and building ships.

    * 40 Eridani A Starfleet Construction Yards
    * Antares Ship Yards
    * Baikonur Cosmodrome
    * Beta Antares Ship Yards
    * Copernicus Ship Yards
    * Earth Station McKinley
    * Luna Shipyards
    * Marin County Starfleet Yards
    * NX Drydock (22nd century)
    * Oakland Fleet Yards
    * Proxima Maintenance Yards
    * Riverside Shipyard
    * San Francisco Fleet Yards (also known as "San Francisco Naval Yards" or "San Francisco Yards")
    * Tranquility Base
    * University of Copernicus
    * Utopia Planitia Fleet Yards (also known as "Utopia Planitia Ship Yards")
    * Warp Five Complex (22nd century)

    According to the USS Enterprise's computer in the CD-ROM game Star Trek: 25th Anniversary, the Tri-Rho Nautica shipyards are one of the largest in the Federation. They orbit Tri-Rho Nautica III in a system that is close to the Klingon border.
    This proves my point. Out of that list of 17 facilities, 11 lie in the sol system. The federation is heavily tied to earth. Their government, and most of their industrial base is there.
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  2. #262
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    theangryamerican's Avatar
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    Re: Federation v Empire

    Quote Originally Posted by Whovian View Post
    Federation shipyards - Memory Alpha, the Star Trek Wiki
    The following is a list of Federation shipyards and maintenance and repair facilities. In addition to the facilities listed here, most larger starbases and outposts are also capable of repairing and building ships.

    * 40 Eridani A Starfleet Construction Yards
    * Antares Ship Yards
    * Baikonur Cosmodrome
    * Beta Antares Ship Yards
    * Copernicus Ship Yards
    * Earth Station McKinley
    * Luna Shipyards
    * Marin County Starfleet Yards
    * NX Drydock (22nd century)
    * Oakland Fleet Yards
    * Proxima Maintenance Yards
    * Riverside Shipyard
    * San Francisco Fleet Yards (also known as "San Francisco Naval Yards" or "San Francisco Yards")
    * Tranquility Base
    * University of Copernicus
    * Utopia Planitia Fleet Yards (also known as "Utopia Planitia Ship Yards")
    * Warp Five Complex (22nd century)

    According to the USS Enterprise's computer in the CD-ROM game Star Trek: 25th Anniversary, the Tri-Rho Nautica shipyards are one of the largest in the Federation. They orbit Tri-Rho Nautica III in a system that is close to the Klingon border.
    Just curious, because I don't know: How many of those were in TOS?
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  3. #263
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    Re: Federation v Empire

    Quote Originally Posted by theangryamerican View Post
    Are you actually going to address your mindless butchering of canon on both sides, or just keep deflecting? Just curious...
    There's nothing to deflect. You can have the dicsussion within the parameters provided or not. Your choice.

  4. #264
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    Re: Federation v Empire

    Quote Originally Posted by theangryamerican View Post
    Just curious, because I don't know: How many of those were in TOS?
    I'd have to look it up. Personally, I'm not playing by 'the rules'. I'll take whatever viable information I can find on either side of the debate.

  5. #265
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    Re: Federation v Empire

    Quote Originally Posted by molten_dragon View Post
    As is the ease of destroying federation planets.
    This eas assumes there is a Death Star present and that the Fed cannot disbale the mai weapon before it fires. This is far more complicated and than what the Feds need to do, risks far more assets, and thus more likely to fail at a degree too costly to bear for any length of time. CAN they do it? Sure. How often?

    Even assuming that there are a similar number of 'important' planets that need to be destroyed (which I'm not sure I agree with), and assuming that star wars hyperdrives move at the same speed as federation warp drives (which I also disagree with), the empire will have an easier job of it, since they simply have less distance to cover.
    Perhaps.

    Could be true, it's hard to tell based solely on what's shown on-screen. The same is true of the federation though, and possibly their situation is even worse. I'm not as familiar with Star Trek, (especially not the original series) but isn't starfleet command and pretty much all of their shipbuilding centered on earth?
    The last place the imperial fleet wants to be is anywhere near Earth

  6. #266
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    Re: Federation v Empire

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    There's nothing to deflect. You can have the dicsussion within the parameters provided or not. Your choice.
    You're re-writing canon to fit your agenda instead of having a fun debate. That's not a discussion I'm interested in having. Thanks anyway.
    "Liberty lies in the hearts of men and women; when it dies there, no constitution, no law, no court can save it; no constitution, no law, no court can even do much to help it." - Judge Learned Hand

  7. #267
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    Re: Federation v Empire

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    This eas assumes there is a Death Star present and that the Fed cannot disbale the mai weapon before it fires. This is far more complicated and than what the Feds need to do, risks far more assets, and thus more likely to fail at a degree too costly to bear for any length of time. CAN they do it? Sure. How often?
    I would argue they could do it fairly often. The death star's power generating capabilities are MANY orders of magnitude greater than any other ship we've seen in the SW universe. That would lead me to believe that their shields are able to take much more of a pounding as well. This is also supported by the fact that the alliance felt it was not worth even trying to attack it with their heavy ships. And the empire could most likely build more than one if they felt it was necessary (remember that the second death star, which was considerably larger than the first, was perhaps 60% built in just a few months).

    The death star is the one imperial ship that I feel safe saying that the federation would have an extremely hard time hurting.

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    The last place the imperial fleet wants to be is anywhere near Earth
    Are you kidding me? Earth is target number one. Sure, it would be heavily defended, but all they have to do is get the death star close enough for one superlaser shot, and the federation not only loses its leadership, but a significant portion of its manufacturing base as well.
    If you build a man a fire, he'll be warm for a day.

    If you set a man on fire, he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

  8. #268
    Banned Goobieman's Avatar
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    Re: Federation v Empire

    Quote Originally Posted by molten_dragon View Post
    Without knowing what the blockade runner's hull is made of, it's impossible to say whether a 5MT blast could vaporize it or not. The blast did seem to do a good bit of damage though (the radius of the explosion was close to the same size as the blockade runner itself)
    The area of a 5MT blast -greatly- exceeds the size of the BR.
    The blast took out the shield generator. The ship still had power, weapons, etc. There wasn't any evidence of damage within the hull - no smoke or debris on the corridors, etc. For the hull to withstand that much force with so litle damage, it would need to be made of unimaginableium.

    Using only on-screen sources, I would say that the power of SW and ST weapons seem to match up fairly well, probably within an order of magnitude or so.
    Good - we agree.

    I would argue that they can fire more often. Check out the two videos below.
    The enterprise's phasers fire much less frequently.
    The phasers on TOS fore far more often than in the clips. So do the photons
    But, lets say that Imperial weapons have a measureably faster ROF.

    I'm still not sure I buy it. Based solely on on-screen evidence, ST ships fight almost solely at sublight speeds. Speaking of which, has it ever been shown that ST ships under warp can attack ship-sized targets which aren't moving at warp speeds? Mostly when they show combat under warp, it's two warp-speed ships fighting each other.
    Goven that it is -harder- to target a ship at warp then whle stationary, I dont see why you could not hit a stationary target while at warp. Video evidence - top of my head: STTMP, Enterprise at warp speed - in a wormhole - destroying an ship-sized asteroid w/ a photon. They -were- going to use the phasers.

    Like I said - there may very well be an advantage to slowing to impulse to fight - but there's no need to do so, and to not do no means the target cannot shoot back.

  9. #269
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    Re: Federation v Empire

    Quote Originally Posted by molten_dragon View Post
    The death star is the one imperial ship that I feel safe saying that the federation would have an extremely hard time hurting.
    really, fly a shuttle craft in (like the alliance flew in snub fighters) and beam a bomb into/onto the power generator. no need to fly down a laser turrent corridor and hit a target the size of a womp rat. easy peasey.
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  10. #270
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    Re: Federation v Empire

    Quote Originally Posted by OscarB63 View Post
    really, fly a shuttle craft in (like the alliance flew in snub fighters) and beam a bomb into/onto the power generator. no need to fly down a laser turrent corridor and hit a target the size of a womp rat. easy peasey.
    The target is well shielded. Hence the attack run at the exhaust port in the movie. Attempting to beam anything through shields either doesn't work or has a very poor success rate in the ST universe. The rebels lost a good protion of their fighters in the attack on the Death Star, so I'd have to say a single shuttle would be just cannon fodder.
    "Liberty lies in the hearts of men and women; when it dies there, no constitution, no law, no court can save it; no constitution, no law, no court can even do much to help it." - Judge Learned Hand

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