View Poll Results: In a war between the Federation and the Empire, who wins?

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  • Empire

    22 46.81%
  • Federation

    25 53.19%
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Thread: Federation v Empire

  1. #241
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    Re: Federation v Empire

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    The Feds dont have to crush every planet, just the important ones.
    Given the effort needed to do so - virtually none- there's no reason they cannot succeed at such an effort.
    In a government of a million systems, there's going to be a lot of important ones. Face it. The empire can afford to fight a war of attrition, the federation can't. Even if the federation won 90% of the battles that were fought, they'd still lose the war.
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  2. #242
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    Re: Federation v Empire

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    Maybe I missed your response - what have you seen on-screen that supports the claim that a single shot from the turret of a transport has a 200GT yield?
    Actually, I don't support that figure, it seems ridiculously high. I do support the estimates based on the scene in TESB where the star destroyer is vaporizing asteroids in the hoth asteroid belt, as well as some other estimates based on things shown on-screen, which comes out to something between 5 and 50 megatons per shot.

    Federation phasers put out something around the same amount of energy, but star destroyers carry more guns and can fire more often.

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    Yeah, but that's meaningless if the the Imperial ships are the only ones getting hit.
    That a rather impressive dismissal of an exceptional detail.
    I dismiss the idea of federation ships fighting solely from warp, because what's shown on-screen doesn't support it. It's been shown that they are capable of doing so, but the vast majority of battles shown in star trek are at sublight speeds. If fighting from warp all the time was possible, and was their most effective tactic, they'd do it all the time. Since they don't, there must be a good reason why the fight at sublight speeds. It might help, but I don't see it being the overwhelming advantage you think it is.
    If you build a man a fire, he'll be warm for a day.

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  3. #243
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    Re: Federation v Empire

    Quote Originally Posted by molten_dragon View Post
    This is a ridiculous claim. The most accurate estimates of reactor power output are based upon weapon output, since weapon output can be calculated based on things which are seen on-screen. If you'd like to argue that those calculations were performed incorrectly, then please feel free to, but saying that SW reactors don't produce enough power to support their weapons is ridiculous, since they are demonstrably able to do just that.
    you can make up fictional numbers to support any claim of fictional events that happened on screen. IMHO, for the purposes of these type discussions, if it didn't happen on screen, it doesn't count. super excelsior golden gloves hovercraft star destroyer happy meals with gravity well generators and blow job dispensing machines did not exist in any of the 6 SW movies, therefore you don't get to count them.
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  4. #244
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    Re: Federation v Empire

    Quote Originally Posted by molten_dragon View Post
    In a government of a million systems, there's going to be a lot of important ones. Face it. The empire can afford to fight a war of attrition, the federation can't. Even if the federation won 90% of the battles that were fought, they'd still lose the war.
    where the hell does this notion that the empire is made up of millions of systems come from? someone point me to the fan fiction or novel in which this is stated. from what could be gathered on screen there were nowhere near 1,000,000. basically the empire took over the old republic and from the views of the senate chamber there were maybe 20-30K systems represented.

    that's one reason I think the Fed would kick the Empire's ass. Empire supporters feel the need to exaggerate its power in order to advance their claim.
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  5. #245
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    Re: Federation v Empire

    Quote Originally Posted by OscarB63 View Post
    you can make up fictional numbers to support any claim of fictional events that happened on screen. IMHO, for the purposes of these type discussions, if it didn't happen on screen, it doesn't count. super excelsior golden gloves hovercraft star destroyer happy meals with gravity well generators and blow job dispensing machines did not exist in any of the 6 SW movies, therefore you don't get to count them.
    Canon is canon. Don't like it, talk to Lucasfilm or Paramount, but you can't change it.

    Btw... I just had to...
    "Liberty lies in the hearts of men and women; when it dies there, no constitution, no law, no court can save it; no constitution, no law, no court can even do much to help it." - Judge Learned Hand

  6. #246
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    Re: Federation v Empire

    Quote Originally Posted by OscarB63 View Post
    IMHO, for the purposes of these type discussions, if it didn't happen on screen, it doesn't count.
    It did happen on screen. There were certain scenes which showed turbolasers doing things which allow the amount of energy they were putting out to be calculated. The scene in TESB where the star destroyer is firing on the asteroids is one of the best.

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    If you build a man a fire, he'll be warm for a day.

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  7. #247
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    Re: Federation v Empire

    Quote Originally Posted by OscarB63 View Post
    where the hell does this notion that the empire is made up of millions of systems come from? someone point me to the fan fiction or novel in which this is stated. from what could be gathered on screen there were nowhere near 1,000,000. basically the empire took over the old republic and from the views of the senate chamber there were maybe 20-30K systems represented.

    that's one reason I think the Fed would kick the Empire's ass. Empire supporters feel the need to exaggerate its power in order to advance their claim.
    I can't find a video of it on youtube, but the quote is from A New Hope, when tarkin is talking to leia before he blows up Alderaan.

    This station is the final link in the new-forged Imperial chain which will bind the million systems of the Galactic Empire together once and for all.
    If you build a man a fire, he'll be warm for a day.

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  8. #248
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    Re: Federation v Empire

    Quote Originally Posted by molten_dragon View Post
    I can't find a video of it on youtube, but the quote is from A New Hope, when tarkin is talking to leia before he blows up Alderaan.
    It's in the ANH novelization. Exact same wording.

    Tarkin declares the Death Star "is the final link in the new-forged Imperial chain which will bind the million systems of the Galactic Empire together once and for all."
    Last edited by theangryamerican; 11-02-10 at 07:33 PM.
    "Liberty lies in the hearts of men and women; when it dies there, no constitution, no law, no court can save it; no constitution, no law, no court can even do much to help it." - Judge Learned Hand

  9. #249
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    Re: Federation v Empire

    We seem to have a dispute as too what, exactly, is the allowed sources for info to compare.

    I was under the impression that it was as yet undetermined.

    But Goobieman seems to be saying it's only what you see in the movies and TV shows.

    A question in regards to that, then - what about documents with more detailed info on entities and objects in the movie/TV series?

    Can that info be used?

    Such as, this random tidbit of info found here, which seems to indicate that the X-Wing used the same laser cannons as those used for main cannon in the AT-AT.

    For that matter, I believe Goobieman mentioned "only what you see on screen".

    I assume that does NOT include a computer screen, since that would VASTLY expand the available material.
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  10. #250
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    Re: Federation v Empire

    Quote Originally Posted by theangryamerican View Post
    If you can't be bothered to play by the rules, this really is pointless.
    If that were the case, you'd have a point.
    Its not, so you don't. The parameters of the discussion are clear; if you don't want to discuss the topic withing those parameters, then you're simply wasting everyone's time.

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