View Poll Results: In a war between the Federation and the Empire, who wins?

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  • Empire

    22 46.81%
  • Federation

    25 53.19%
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Thread: Federation v Empire

  1. #231
    Banned Goobieman's Avatar
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    Re: Federation v Empire

    Quote Originally Posted by theangryamerican View Post
    Nope, your Warp Drive would be useless, but I was hoping you'd try to make that differentiation. The large domes on the hull of the Interdictor are gravity well generators, meant to pull passing ships back in to normal space. There have been several examples when a large gravitational anomaly pulled ships out of warp in the ST universe.
    ST ships have hovered over and flown across the deck of a -star- at warp speed.
    For that matter, ST ships have used the gravity well of a star to slingshot themselves back in time.
    Your non-canon ship-based gravity well generator need not apply.

    This is a false statement, as the determining factor for canon is the governing body...
    According to you. You dont have to like that the discussion is limited to what is seen ion the screen, but thems the breaks.

  2. #232
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    Re: Federation v Empire

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    ST ships have hovered over and flown across the deck of a -star- at warp speed.
    For that matter, ST ships have used the gravity well of a star to slingshot themselves back in time.
    Your non-canon ship-based gravity well generator need not apply.
    I specifically provided you with examples supporting my point. You want to refute it?

    According to you. You dont have to like that the discussion is limited to what is seen ion the screen, but thems the breaks.
    According to George Lucas... but what does he know? Btw, since you started this, show me where in your Op you specified on-screen only.

    You can't change the rules to your own game half-way through, Ensign.
    Last edited by theangryamerican; 11-02-10 at 04:04 PM.
    "Liberty lies in the hearts of men and women; when it dies there, no constitution, no law, no court can save it; no constitution, no law, no court can even do much to help it." - Judge Learned Hand

  3. #233
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    Re: Federation v Empire

    Quote Originally Posted by theangryamerican View Post
    According to George Lucas...
    ........

  4. #234
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    Re: Federation v Empire

    Quote Originally Posted by theangryamerican View Post
    I specifically provided you with examples supporting my point. You want to refute it?
    I did. Warp drive is operable while in exceptionally close proximity to a star.

    Further, it was previously noted that we were discussing ST in the time of Kirk. TNG examples are thus inapplicable - which, given the jack-assery of the series, only increases the Federation's chanes against the Empire.


    According to George Lucas... but what does he know?
    Exactly. Thank you.
    Whats on screen in inarguable. Period.

    Btw, since you started this, show me where in your Op you specified on-screen only.
    I didn't- but then I didn't need to, as it was specified as soon as the issue came up.
    Last edited by Goobieman; 11-02-10 at 04:31 PM.

  5. #235
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    Re: Federation v Empire

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    I did. Warp drive is operable while in exceptionally close proximity to a star.

    Further, it was previously noted that we were discussing ST in the time of Kirk. TNG examples are thus inapplicable - which, given the jack-assery of the series, only increases the Federation's chanes against the Empire.



    Exactly. Thank you.
    Whats on screen in inarguable. Period.


    I didn't- but then I didn't need to, as it was specified as soon as the issue came up.
    It's amusing that you're the only one insisting on employing ever-increasing requirements on this debate. Your first post said Federation v. Empire. Period. When shown proof that your position is untenable, you try to use caveats to improperly tip the playing field in your favor. (Which still ain't gonna help you, chief) To this point, the entire summary of your response to any argument posed against you is “nuh uh.” Laughable, at best, Sir.

    Btw, you do know that Roddenberry himself stated that TNG is the final authority on ST canon when it comes to resolving discrepancies in the ST universe. It supersedes TOS. His words…not mine.
    "Liberty lies in the hearts of men and women; when it dies there, no constitution, no law, no court can save it; no constitution, no law, no court can even do much to help it." - Judge Learned Hand

  6. #236
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    Re: Federation v Empire

    Quote Originally Posted by theangryamerican View Post
    It's amusing that you're the only one insisting on employing ever-increasing requirements on this debate.
    People asked questions about the specific parameters of the discussion, and I responded with those specifics. If you don't want to have the conversation within the parameters set by those answers, then your contributions here are meaningless.

  7. #237
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    Re: Federation v Empire

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    People asked questions about the specific parameters of the discussion, and I responded with those specifics. If you don't want to have the conversation within the parameters set by those answers, then your contributions here are meaningless.
    You didn’t mention Kirk until 65 posts into the discussion. Sorry, I missed that at first. My apologies. Unless I’m mistaken though, you didn’t specify a time period for SW…

    You realize that you signed your own death warrant with that, right? Earlier you acknowledged that the Empire had more powerful weapon systems, but couldn’t bring them to bear thanks to your warp-drive.

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    Read this before, good for a laugh.
    Fire control - its all about fire control. If you can't get a firing solution, the power of your weapons doesn't matter.
    I shot down your one claimed advantage easily and you refuse to accept it because my ST examples weren’t specific to your time period?

    You’re claiming that the warp systems in TNG became…worse? The way a warp drive functions changed? Lol.

    Never mind the fact that you’re arguing not only against SW canon, but your own ST canon as well… *sigh*
    "Liberty lies in the hearts of men and women; when it dies there, no constitution, no law, no court can save it; no constitution, no law, no court can even do much to help it." - Judge Learned Hand

  8. #238
    Banned Goobieman's Avatar
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    Re: Federation v Empire

    Quote Originally Posted by theangryamerican View Post
    You didn’t mention Kirk until 65 posts into the discussion....
    Once someone asked. Yes. Just like I said.

    Sorry, I missed that at first. My apologies. Unless I’m mistaken though, you didn’t specify a time period for SW…
    Sure I did. 'What you see on screen' defines a specific time period.

    You realize that you signed your own death warrant with that, right? Earlier you acknowledged that the Empire had more powerful weapon systems...
    I mane no such acnowledgement.

    ...but couldn’t bring them to bear thanks to your warp-drive.
    Kinda hard to do when your FC cannot track and your weapons cannot catch their target

    I shot down your one claimed advantage easily...
    Except that your 'example' isnt canon, and even if it were, it is negated by canon to the contrary.

  9. #239
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    Re: Federation v Empire

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    Once someone asked. Yes. Just like I said.


    Sure I did. 'What you see on screen' defines a specific time period.


    I mane no such acnowledgement.


    Kinda hard to do when your FC cannot track and your weapons cannot catch their target


    Except that your 'example' isnt canon, and even if it were, it is negated by canon to the contrary.
    Like I said...

    Never mind the fact that you’re arguing not only against SW canon, but your own ST canon as well… *sigh*
    If you can't be bothered to play by the rules, this really is pointless. I like how you edited your quotes to get rid of any argument you can't readily dismiss, though. That was classy.
    Last edited by theangryamerican; 11-02-10 at 05:43 PM.
    "Liberty lies in the hearts of men and women; when it dies there, no constitution, no law, no court can save it; no constitution, no law, no court can even do much to help it." - Judge Learned Hand

  10. #240
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    Re: Federation v Empire

    Quote Originally Posted by OscarB63 View Post
    but if you want technical merits... you are going to have to revise all the SW shield and weapons outputs down...since as they currently stand they are greater than the energy their reactors can produce.
    This is a ridiculous claim. The most accurate estimates of reactor power output are based upon weapon output, since weapon output can be calculated based on things which are seen on-screen. If you'd like to argue that those calculations were performed incorrectly, then please feel free to, but saying that SW reactors don't produce enough power to support their weapons is ridiculous, since they are demonstrably able to do just that.
    If you build a man a fire, he'll be warm for a day.

    If you set a man on fire, he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

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