View Poll Results: Did all the great ideas of the 18th, 19th and 20th centuries need government?

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  • Joe is absolutely correct

    10 19.61%
  • Joe is absolutely incorrect

    34 66.67%
  • Other (Explain)

    7 13.73%
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Thread: Joe Biden: Great ideas of the last 200 years needed government

  1. #41
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    Re: Joe Biden: Great ideas of the last 200 years needed government

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    No, YOU are the one parsing his words claiming that the words "every single" are important, like it's a contract.
    Why don't you instead talk about his point that government plays an important role in technology, instead of doing the lawyerly crap.


    I guess words and phrases just mean whatever you want them to mean. That's pretty convenient. Totally insane, but convenient.

    There's not much more to say to you if you aren't willing to recognize the agreed-upon definitions of words.

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    Re: Joe Biden: Great ideas of the last 200 years needed government

    PORN!

    The government did nothing to promote or help this industry, and look at it! A massive, throbbing industry that people can really get behind! Hundred of millions in revenue, tens of thousands of jobs, and all that tax revenue for the government.

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    Re: Joe Biden: Great ideas of the last 200 years needed government

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    No, YOU are the one parsing his offhand choice of words, like it's a contract.
    Why don't you instead talk about his general point that government plays an important role in technology, instead of doing the lawyerly crap.
    So, by 'every single', he really only meant 'some or a few'?

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    Re: Joe Biden: Great ideas of the last 200 years needed government

    Quote Originally Posted by Whovian View Post
    So, by 'every single', he really only meant 'some or a few'?
    Actually, it depends on what the meaning of the word "is" is.

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    Re: Joe Biden: Great ideas of the last 200 years needed government

    Quote Originally Posted by Whovian View Post
    PORN!

    The government did nothing to promote or help this industry, and look at it! A massive, throbbing industry that people can really get behind! Hundred of millions in revenue, tens of thousands of jobs, and all that tax revenue for the government.
    As industries go, you do need to realize that this one has only grown in spurts.
    "you're better off on Stormfront discussing how evil brown men are taking innocent white flowers." Infinite Chaos

  6. #46
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    Re: Joe Biden: Great ideas of the last 200 years needed government

    Quote Originally Posted by Whovian View Post
    So, by 'every single', he really only meant 'some or a few'?
    Well I posted my list of what I consider the most important inventions of modern history. Government certainly played a role in all of THOSE. I'm sure you can find some example of an Acme Backscratcher or something where the government's role was negligible, but you'd just be splitting hairs. If you're going to bitch about Biden's exact choice of words instead of actually discussing his point, it's most likely because you have nothing of substance to add to the conversation.

    ZOMG HE SAID EVERY SINGLE GREAT IDEA, INSTEAD OF MOST GREAT IDEAS!!!! IMPEACH HIM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!111111111111
    Last edited by Kandahar; 10-29-10 at 12:45 AM.
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    Re: Joe Biden: Great ideas of the last 200 years needed government

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Well I posted my list of what I consider the most important inventions of modern history. Government certainly played a role in all of THOSE. I'm sure you can find some example of an Acme Backscratcher or something where the government's role was negligible, but you'd just be splitting hairs. If you're going to bitch about Biden's exact choice of words instead of actually discussing his point, it's most likely because you have nothing of substance to add to the conversation.
    That was almost funny.

    You're so completely partisan that you're trying to convince us all that Biden's words have a different meaning for him than they do for everyone else.

    Private enterprise was the driving force behind most of the greatest achievements and discoveries and inventions in the last few centuries. I'm sure you can find some example of an Acme Teleprompter or something where the government's role was important, but you'd just be splitting hairs. If you're going to bitch about how Biden's exact choice of words doesn't matter because that wasn't what he really meant instead of actually discussing reality, it's most likely because you have nothing of substance to add to the conversation. (no smiley)

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    Re: Joe Biden: Great ideas of the last 200 years needed government

    Quote Originally Posted by Whovian View Post
    That was almost funny.

    You're so completely partisan that you're trying to convince us all that Biden's words have a different meaning for him than they do for everyone else.
    Nope, I'm non-partisan enough that I'd rather discuss whether or not government plays a significant role in technological advances, which is actually an interesting topic, unlike Joe Biden's exact choice of words. Honestly, don't you have anything better to do?

    Quote Originally Posted by Whovian
    Private enterprise was the driving force behind most of the greatest achievements and discoveries and inventions in the last few centuries.
    Certainly no argument there. That doesn't mean that government played no important role.

    Quote Originally Posted by Whovian
    I'm sure you can find some example of an Acme Teleprompter or something where the government's role was important, but you'd just be splitting hairs.
    I posted what I considered the most important modern inventions, and highlighted the significant role government played in each of them. Since you must have missed them, here they are again:

    1. Automobiles (interstate highway system)
    2. Airplanes (airports)
    3. The internet (DARPA)
    4. Television (FCC assigning broadcast channels)
    5. Telephone (phone lines infrastructure - joint public/private effort)
    6. Electricity (power grid)
    7. Plumbing (public sanitation/sewer systems)
    8. Antibiotics (large public health campaigns)
    9. High-yield crops (public R&D)

    Quote Originally Posted by Whovian
    If you're going to bitch about how Biden's exact choice of words doesn't matter because that wasn't what he really meant instead of actually discussing reality, it's most likely because you have nothing of substance to add to the conversation. (no smiley)
    Aaaaaaaand you're STILL bitching about Joe Biden, instead of talking about government's role in technology. Yet *I* am the partisan.
    Last edited by Kandahar; 10-29-10 at 01:14 AM.
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    Re: Joe Biden: Great ideas of the last 200 years needed government

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Well, some of them definitely needed government. I think if you look at the most important inventions, a good many of them had at least SOME significant government involvement...whether in infrastructure, R&D, coordination, or just good old fashioned regulation. What would you consider the most important inventions of the modern world? I think that any such list would include the following technologies, all of which had a significant role for the government:

    Automobiles (interstate highway system), airplanes (airports), the internet (DARPA), television (FCC assigning broadcast channels), telephone (phone lines), electricity (power grid), plumbing (public sanitation/sewer systems), antibiotics (large public health campaigns), and high-yield crops (public R&D).

    I'm sure there are some examples that didn't require much government involvement, but most of the inventions that I'd classify as among the most important did.
    You need to remove telephone from your list. The government had nothing to do with it's creation, nor with the telephone system itself (lines, switchers, etc...) That was all BELL
    The Evolution of the Telephone System
    Bell established commercial telephone service in 1877. By June 30, 1887 there were 230 phones installed; in July, there
    were 750; and in August there were 1,300. (SIT-23) Within ten years, 167,000 phones would create a disorganized maze of overhead wires in cities across the northeast. The early adopters of the telephone were mostly businessmen who could afford to pay for the rather expensive service.
    Airports needs to come off too. The first commercial airports were privately built, owned and operated.

    The electric 'grid' was private enterprise too...
    History of electric power transmission - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    The idea of investing in a central plant and a network to deliver energy produced to customers who pay a recurring fee for service was familiar business model for investors: it was identical to the lucrative gaslight business, or the hydraulic and pneumatic power transmission systems. The only difference was the stuff being delivered was electricity not gas, and the "pipes" doing the delivering were flexible. The California Electric Company (now PG&E) in San Francisco in 1879 used two direct current generators from Charles Brush's company to supply multiple customers with power for their arc lights. This San Francisco system was the first case of a utility selling electricity from a central plant to multiple customers via transmission lines.
    Certainly, the government helped in some areas, some more than others, but to say 'EVERY' is simply incorrect. To defend the error out of partisanship, is immature.

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    Re: Joe Biden: Great ideas of the last 200 years needed government

    to further clarify for those who appear ot to comprehend...

    The government played an important role in SOME areas of important discoveries, inventions and ideas over the last few hundred years. No one here has said otherwise.

    What we HAVE said, is that PRIVATE ENTERPRISE has been and always will be the driving force behind MOST important discoveries, inventions and ideas. Only a few here seem to think otherwise.

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