View Poll Results: Did all the great ideas of the 18th, 19th and 20th centuries need government?

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  • Joe is absolutely correct

    10 19.61%
  • Joe is absolutely incorrect

    34 66.67%
  • Other (Explain)

    7 13.73%
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Thread: Joe Biden: Great ideas of the last 200 years needed government

  1. #101
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    Re: Joe Biden: Great ideas of the last 200 years needed government

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    Yes, it does work because if it is a day or a year doesn't matter. You gotta recoup costs of R&D, and you will not before you are pushed out of the market.
    I'm not arguing over IP, so this is it for me.
    It's clear to anyone who has worked in any type of industry that, reverse engineering something and retooling a plant for production takes more than a day.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
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  2. #102
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    Re: Joe Biden: Great ideas of the last 200 years needed government

    Well, I'm arguing IP and I don't appreciate the insinuation that I've been dishonest (or worse, wrong) regarding the time requirements for reverse engineering and retooling (for what presumably could be a computer program).

    I made my point, yours is irrelevant, thanks for playing.
    Last edited by ecofarm; 10-29-10 at 08:55 PM.

  3. #103
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    Re: Joe Biden: Great ideas of the last 200 years needed government

    Quote Originally Posted by ARealConservative View Post
    bicycles were popular before roads. Horse Drawn Wagons were popular before roads. Why could it not be true for cars?
    Well, for one thing, cars travel a lot faster than bicycles or horse drawn wagons. They tear up dirt roads a lot faster than bikes or horses, and they're a lot more difficult to control off-road. For another thing, some roads DID exist during the era of bicycles and horse-drawn wagons (just look at old paintings/photographs). They weren't paved, but they were still roads.

    Automobiles could never have caught on to the extent that they did without some serious government involvement. Can you imagine trying to drive to the nearest city through random fields and forests without a road? Let alone trying to drive WITHIN a city, navigating randomly around buildings? That model doesn't work so well. Lots of African cities have tried it.
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  4. #104
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    Re: Joe Biden: Great ideas of the last 200 years needed government

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    Well, I'm arguing IP and I don't appreciate the insinuation that I've been dishonest (or worse, wrong) regarding the time requirements for reverse engineering and retooling (for what presumably could be a computer program).

    I made my point, yours is irrelevant, thanks for playing.
    I'm just not in the mood to debate it.

    It's long and drawn out, I've had a long and tiresome day.
    Maybe tomorrow.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

  5. #105
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    Re: Joe Biden: Great ideas of the last 200 years needed government

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Well, for one thing, cars travel a lot faster than bicycles or horse drawn wagons. They tear up dirt roads a lot faster than bikes or horses, and they're a lot more difficult to control off-road. For another thing, some roads DID exist during the era of bicycles and horse-drawn wagons (just look at old paintings/photographs). They weren't paved, but they were still roads.

    Automobiles could never have caught on to the extent that they did without some serious government involvement. Can you imagine trying to drive to the nearest city through random fields and forests without a road? Let alone trying to drive WITHIN a city, navigating randomly around buildings? That model doesn't work so well. Lots of African cities have tried it.
    People did do these things though, way before the invention of cars there were roads, both formal and informal.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
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  6. #106
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    Re: Joe Biden: Great ideas of the last 200 years needed government

    Nothing could have been invented were it not for the trees, rain and sun. Let's give all the credit to the pagan gods...

    They've been so good to us!
    Thank you, Sun, for all the great inventions you made possible.
    Thank you, Moon, for music and smiles.



    This is ridiculous. People don't exist without government but that doesn't mean government gets credit for everything.
    Last edited by ecofarm; 10-29-10 at 09:00 PM.

  7. #107
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    Re: Joe Biden: Great ideas of the last 200 years needed government

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Well, for one thing, cars travel a lot faster than bicycles or horse drawn wagons. They tear up dirt roads a lot faster than bikes or horses, and they're a lot more difficult to control off-road. For another thing, some roads DID exist during the era of bicycles and horse-drawn wagons (just look at old paintings/photographs). They weren't paved, but they were still roads.

    Automobiles could never have caught on to the extent that they did without some serious government involvement. Can you imagine trying to drive to the nearest city through random fields and forests without a road? Let alone trying to drive WITHIN a city, navigating randomly around buildings? That model doesn't work so well. Lots of African cities have tried it.
    The roads (or more likely, paths and tracks) would exist due to the use of wagons and horses - it wouldn't be "random fields and forests", unless you were way the hell off the "beaten path"...Which, come to think of it, is a saying that proves my point, to an extent.

    And sure as hell, I bet wagons and horses navigated randomly around buildings...Why not cars?

    Given enough horse and wagon traffic, I would bet some kind of traffic control arose...despite there being no cars.
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  8. #108
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    Re: Joe Biden: Great ideas of the last 200 years needed government

    Quote Originally Posted by SE102 View Post
    Why so... absolute? No middle ground?
    Of course, it takes a college guy to challenge the too often black or white view of our nation in general and even this board in particulary. Its nonetheless nive to find some intelligent life among us.
    Last edited by upsideguy; 10-29-10 at 09:16 PM.

  9. #109
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    Re: Joe Biden: Great ideas of the last 200 years needed government

    I think Joe meant to MEAN something a bit different than what he said. But he didnt say it that way. Now to answer the poll..... I picked other because Joe is correct and incorrect.
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  10. #110
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    Re: Joe Biden: Great ideas of the last 200 years needed government

    Going back to the 18th C takes us to the 1700's. Those 2 centuries are notable for at least 2 major advances or "Revolutions" in the Western World: Agricultural and Industrial

    The Agricultural revolution in Europe came from *the need* for increased production of food-supplies (just one aspect of it). One major advancement was the idea and utilization of defined and fenced in properties (you know - the infamous hedgerows and stone walls of Europe) for growing crops and keeping animals penned.

    This started with the landlords, farmers (some aspects of advancement came from merchants) more so than aristocracy or nobility. Government didn't get involved until they realized the benefit of this (for the food production - AND *more so* the benefit of increased wealth that came from organized farming enclosures).

    And so this is found in almost EVERY area of advancement - individuals come up with the idea and expand it
    GOVERNMENT always then takes it over and takes the claim *for* institutionalizing it.

    In many areas, however, Government has proven to be the very thing *holding people back* from advancements - much to the detriment of many.

    This brings up the other thread about 'The politically incorrect path to ending poverty' - or whatever it was called.
    Last edited by Aunt Spiker; 10-29-10 at 09:57 PM.
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