View Poll Results: Did all the great ideas of the 18th, 19th and 20th centuries need government?

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  • Joe is absolutely correct

    10 19.61%
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    34 66.67%
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    7 13.73%
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Thread: Joe Biden: Great ideas of the last 200 years needed government

  1. #91
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    Re: Joe Biden: Great ideas of the last 200 years needed government

    Quote Originally Posted by Whovian View Post
    You're actually trying to say that the inventions themselves did not matter, it was the government making them popular that mattered?

    Seriously?
    I'm not saying that the inventions didn't matter, but presumably we're talking about the actual impact they had on people's lives rather than just the fact that someone managed to produce a cool new shiny object. A television is useless if no one can watch it because people are constantly broadcasting over top of one another. The FCC coordinates efforts to prevent this, thus improving the experience for ALL users. If the government hadn't gotten involved to coordinate it, a television would probably be little more than a curiosity.
    Last edited by Kandahar; 10-29-10 at 08:11 PM.
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  2. #92
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    Re: Joe Biden: Great ideas of the last 200 years needed government

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    We, the people, are OBVIOUSLY incapabe of doing anything for ourselves; we NEED government to take care of us.

    I always thought this was just a line liberals fed to unthinking people just to get their political support -- reading this thread and a few others like it, it is depressingly apparent that some of those liberals actually believe it.
    Then perhaps you could explain how automobiles would have become popular without roads. Perhaps you could explain how radio and television would have become popular without any coordination to prevent broadcasters from using the same channel. Thanks.
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  3. #93
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    Re: Joe Biden: Great ideas of the last 200 years needed government

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    How about asprin. Microsoft. The assembly line? The lightbulb?
    The lightbulb was massively incentivized by the government. That doesn't mean the government invented it, but they have paid for a huge percentage of the creation of the power grid and power production which was until fairly recently almost exclusively used for lighting. The lightbulb was basically useless until they rolled out the power grid.

    The assembly line certainly the government has played a major role in. Arguably when it really evolved into modern form was during WWII when the government was driving the vast majority of the demand.

    Asprin... Long ugly history between Asprin and the government. The US seized Bayer's assets in WWI which is when asprin started to really be mass marketted, but then IG Farben bought it and it got nationalized by the nazis... So I don't know if I'd say exactly that the government "helped" Asprin, but definitely heavy government involvement...

    (I actually assume there are some great inventions that government hasn't been involved with, just think it's a fun game to try to disprove the examples)

  4. #94
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    Re: Joe Biden: Great ideas of the last 200 years needed government

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    First to market and profit would last about 1 day and be worth about $1.50. Superior knowledge would last less than a day. Costs would not be returned; others would be reaping equal profits and pushing you out of the market by day 3. By day 5 you would be pushed out of the market by a large company and close business deeply in debt from R&D. On day 6, you would find no recourse. On day 7 the big sharks would rest and prepare to divide up the market next week.
    It takes more than one day to reverse engineer and retool a facility to produce a new item.
    That doesn't work.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
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  5. #95
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    Re: Joe Biden: Great ideas of the last 200 years needed government

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Then perhaps you could explain how automobiles would have become popular without roads. Perhaps you could explain how radio and television would have become popular without any coordination to prevent broadcasters from using the same channel. Thanks.
    bicycles were popular before roads. Horse Drawn Wagons were popular before roads. Why could it not be true for cars?

  6. #96
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    Re: Joe Biden: Great ideas of the last 200 years needed government

    Quote Originally Posted by ARealConservative View Post
    bicycles were popular before roads. Horse Drawn Wagons were popular before roads. Why could it not be true for cars?
    Cars were popular, that's why we now have roads.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
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    Re: Joe Biden: Great ideas of the last 200 years needed government

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    Cars were popular, that's why we now have roads.
    historically, the popularity of the bicyle and the wagon commisisioned the Office of Road Inquiry. So government roads were being built before Henry Ford started mass producing cars.

  8. #98
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    Re: Joe Biden: Great ideas of the last 200 years needed government

    Quote Originally Posted by ARealConservative View Post
    historically, the popularity of the bicyle and the wagon commisisioned the Office of Road Inquiry. So government roads were being built before Henry Ford started mass producing cars.
    True, roads existed even before the U.S. government, so I think that government inducing cars to be built is bunk.

    The interstate system was built because of so many vehicles.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
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  9. #99
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    Re: Joe Biden: Great ideas of the last 200 years needed government

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    True, roads existed even before the U.S. government, so I think that government inducing cars to be built is bunk.

    The interstate system was built because of so many vehicles.
    I'm in total agreement. Kandahar is just reading from his playbook.

    bicycles were popular without roads and cars would be too. In fact cars were incredibly popular with no real road infrastructure. The rally cry to build roads was ""Get the farmers out of the mud!" because cars were already getting very popular.

  10. #100
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    Re: Joe Biden: Great ideas of the last 200 years needed government

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    It takes more than one day to reverse engineer and retool a facility to produce a new item.
    That doesn't work.
    Yes, it does work because if it is a day or a year doesn't matter (notice the biblical reference?). You must recoup costs of R&D, and you will not before you are pushed out of the market. Developing a new product or process would always be a loss without IP except when the biggest distributor innovates.

    Without IP, private innovation or invention ceases for all practical purpose. End of story.
    Last edited by ecofarm; 10-29-10 at 08:49 PM.

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