View Poll Results: Which should be taught in school science classes?

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  • Evolution

    80 78.43%
  • Intelligent Design

    1 0.98%
  • Creationism

    0 0%
  • Every theory in this area

    11 10.78%
  • Only these 3 or 2 of these three

    3 2.94%
  • None of these

    4 3.92%
  • Other

    3 2.94%
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Thread: Which should be taught in school science classes?

  1. #101
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    Re: Which should be taught in school science classes?

    Quote Originally Posted by pbrauer View Post
    Evolution is science and doesn't rule out intelligent design.
    PB, that really is my point regarding ID. But, if a god does exist, then is it really scientific to ignore any impact that god might have on the origins and development of matter and life? Kinda sounds like acknowledging that milk exists but saying it has nothing to do with how ice cream is made.
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  2. #102
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    Re: Which should be taught in school science classes?

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    You can believe in God and still realize that ID is fraudulent. It was specifically and deliberately created to get creationism taught in a science class, by restating creationism in pseudoscientific language.

    It's entirely possible that ID is accurate, but there is currently no scientific evidence to back that up. Anyone who claims otherwise is perpetrating a fraud.
    Deuce, the fraud is that anyone thinks Intelligent Design and Creationism are the same thing. They are not. Most scientists are ID believers, whether they admit it or not. Many other scientists believe in creationism, far more than the ID and closet ID scientists would like to admit.
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  3. #103
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    Re: Which should be taught in school science classes?

    Quote Originally Posted by friday View Post
    PB, that really is my point regarding ID. But, if a god does exist, then is it really scientific to ignore any impact that god might have on the origins and development of matter and life? Kinda sounds like acknowledging that milk exists but saying it has nothing to do with how ice cream is made.
    Making ice cream is a physical process with measurement behind it. Gods are not. In the realm of science, gods are not spoken of due to their inherent immeasurable quantities. Science and Theology are thus two different subjects. Science concerns itself with measurement and pattern. Theology concerns itself more with philosophy. Science will not prove or disprove creationism as the ultimate premise of it is an immeasurable system. Both can co-exist just fine as the core of exploration between science and theology is different.
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  4. #104
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    Re: Which should be taught in school science classes?

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    As I said. Cut down the time talking about evolution and introduce creationism according to religions and intelligent design. We don't need to go so in depth into evolution, and it shouldn't be the only theory presented (as that falsely implies that it is the only true proven theory).
    The issue with this is that science, even in high school where it is categorized, still is not that specific. Usually evolution is taught in biology, but if you add into that all the different theories of how we could have come into being then you don't leave enough time discussing the different facits within biology. I don't know about you, but my science teachers didn't exactly spend hours discussing evolution. It was more of a single class or possibly a week discussing fossil records, how different groups of species are similar, what part genes and natural selection play in evolution and how certain species may have come into being through evolution. There was no definitive "this is the only possibility" but there certainly was a lot of evidence to support it. So if we assume that about a week of science class is dedicated to evolution, then how much of that week should we dedicate to creationism (including every religion's specific creation stories), ID, alien intervention, the Matrix-esque theories, and various cosmic dream theories. This would be very confusing for a student to have to take in and learn just to essentially be "PC". Why shouldn't we just stick with what actually has evidence to support it?

    BTW, I am responding to this as you would accept all theories being taught in school, not just ones you approve of or that even have proof to support them, since that is how you voted.
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  5. #105
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    Re: Which should be taught in school science classes?

    Quote Originally Posted by friday View Post
    PB, that really is my point regarding ID. But, if a god does exist, then is it really scientific to ignore any impact that god might have on the origins and development of matter and life? Kinda sounds like acknowledging that milk exists but saying it has nothing to do with how ice cream is made.
    Quote Originally Posted by friday View Post
    Deuce, the fraud is that anyone thinks Intelligent Design and Creationism are the same thing. They are not. Most scientists are ID believers, whether they admit it or not. Many other scientists believe in creationism, far more than the ID and closet ID scientists would like to admit.
    Everything you just wrote is wrong.
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  6. #106
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    Re: Which should be taught in school science classes?

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    Everything you just wrote is wrong.
    I am utterly defeated by your incredible and well thought out argument.
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  7. #107
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    Re: Which should be taught in school science classes?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Making ice cream is a physical process with measurement behind it. Gods are not. In the realm of science, gods are not spoken of due to their inherent immeasurable quantities. Science and Theology are thus two different subjects. Science concerns itself with measurement and pattern. Theology concerns itself more with philosophy. Science will not prove or disprove creationism as the ultimate premise of it is an immeasurable system. Both can co-exist just fine as the core of exploration between science and theology is different.
    Science cannot measure the big bang or evolution. They have never observed it on a macro level, nor have they been able to reproduce it. In fact, if you read back a few posts, this is the very reason Darwin provided for the defeat of the theory of evolution in his Origin of Species.
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  8. #108
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    Re: Which should be taught in school science classes?

    Quote Originally Posted by friday View Post
    Science cannot measure the big bang or evolution. They have never observed it on a macro level, nor have they been able to reproduce it. In fact, if you read back a few posts, this is the very reason Darwin provided for the defeat of the theory of evolution in his Origin of Species.
    But the Big Bang left measurable after effects which can and have been measured. A massive explosion of that sorts wouldn't leave zero remnants. Evolution too has measurable observables. From the fossil record we know that the environment and organisms on the planet have changed. Evolution is precisely that, it means there are dynamics involved and that things are not static. Evolution is change. Change has been measured. Now if you want to talk about the specific mechanisms behind that change, it's not all known at this point. But there are certainly observables which give clues as to what those mechanisms may be.
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    Re: Which should be taught in school science classes?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    But the Big Bang left measurable after effects which can and have been measured. A massive explosion of that sorts wouldn't leave zero remnants. Evolution too has measurable observables. From the fossil record we know that the environment and organisms on the planet have changed. Evolution is precisely that, it means there are dynamics involved and that things are not static. Evolution is change. Change has been measured. Now if you want to talk about the specific mechanisms behind that change, it's not all known at this point. But there are certainly observables which give clues as to what those mechanisms may be.
    Our "measuring" of the effects of the big bang are guesses based on the presupposition of matter appearing out of nowhere and organizing itself perfectly with no first mover or designer. It's like measuring how tall you are by holding a ruler in the air at arms length and seeing what line you think you come closest to. Unless you put the end of that ruler on the ground you aren't measuring anything. (Yay random analogies!)
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  10. #110
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    Re: Which should be taught in school science classes?

    Quote Originally Posted by friday View Post
    Our "measuring" of the effects of the big bang are guesses based on the presupposition of matter appearing out of nowhere and organizing itself perfectly with no first mover or designer. It's like measuring how tall you are by holding a ruler in the air at arms length and seeing what line you think you come closest to. Unless you put the end of that ruler on the ground you aren't measuring anything. (Yay random analogies!)
    No. The measurements indicating the Big Bang are measurements on the universe, it's relative movement, energy backgrounds, etc. All which indicate a Big Bang like event. Anything before the Big Bang is unknown.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

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